organization to help Northern Pike fishery

[DaMoose]

I am a spearer, I agree with Elwood that the oops tag would not work. I like the idea of a 30" to 40" protected slot with 1 fish per year over 40", with tag. The reason I say 30" at the low side is that it would allow the spearers to take the 25" & 26" fish without worry of killing a protected fish. Most spearers who choose to spear slot lakes give themself a 4" to 5" cushion. With the 30" slot and 4" to 5" cushion, it would altimately bring the slot for spearers to a 26" to 40" protected. Just my opinion.

[Jameson]

More like 26" to 42"

I'd hope.

[reinhard1]

i agree with damoose. i will say this is a voice of reason. wanting the designated muskey lakes open for spearing is not only self serving but greedy. good luck. over 3400 lakes open for spearing and wanting 26 more, is a step to wanting it all instead of compromise. instead of look and realease let's look and support the future.

[smnduck]

+1

[Jameson]

...wanting the designated muskey lakes open for spearing is not only self serving but greedy. ...

How many lakes are closed to angling, but open to spearing? Let's make 26 of them the same acreage as the 26 d muskie lakes. Not trying to be self serving and greedy or anything....just fair.

[reinhard1]

let me say again over 3500 lakes open for spearing for pike. 26 closed for spearing. 1.5 mil. anglers 16thousand people that spear. is it realy too much to ask to have a few lakes to keep muskie fishing for the future? i think this is a no-brainer. if you look at my previous posts i am NOT against spearing,but let' have reason, people who spear pike will not have their rights taken away. the long range plans for northern pike are to provide high quality angling oppertunities for large pike and to provide for spearing for pike. this is the dnr's long range plan. good luck.

[Muskiefool]

When we talked about the lower range of the slot to the MDAA guys in the workshops they were not interesting in that at all they want the top end. I quote "We ask for 2-4 inches on each side of the slot" so a 28 - 32 slot.

Thanks for posting the link on the presentation I gave at the round table it was very well received, and as usual you missed the point of the gutted fish. peta peta LMAO

Keep painting us as anti-spearing; anti-harvest Steve, it shows your frustration, ill-content and hate for Muskies and just how wrong you are.

Thank You

[jeffreyd]

what if they closed down muskie and pike in the winter period? how would that go over? How much would it help the habitat if they did it for 1 yr? 5 yrs? this to me is where it is headed. Allow ice fishing for other species that have better populations and are able to produce in a shorter time frame.

[merkman]

The long range plans for northern pike are

to provide high quality angling oppertunities for large pike and

to provide for spearing for pike.

this is the dnr's long range plan.

good luck.

[bigpike00]

I don't understand why you are having an issue with this. Is it because you are struggling to catch big fish. I catch big northerns all the time and it does not seem to be an issue. Maybe you need a better technique or just better equipment.

[jeffreyd]

first off merk, if your post above is singling me out as to shutting down anything, you are quite wrong. What would i gain from that? what would anyone gain? But reading your above post, it makes me wonder if you are mad that you cant spear muskie or are mad that the hook and line guys kill 5% average each year unintentionally? Is this really about pike or muskie? I really think that this must be something that has been a burr under your saddle for many years? am i correct?

So asking again since i do not think you gave me a straight answer, what is the rub with closing 26 lakes to spearing when you have over 3500 that are open? Please dont give the canned slot limit answer, i have that or the fact that you have to turn yourself in if you kill an out of range pike, got that. I just do not understand what the rub is other than you want to do something that is illegal by policy and are not happy about it?

Did you attend the workshop that laid out the 2020 draft? clearly by the short statement in the draft, the MDAA either got mad at someone, made someone mad, or did not have their agenda prepared for the group, either way, you got screwed and now you want the world to change for that, just my opinion.

[merkman]

So asking again since i do not think you gave me a straight answer

[foulpole18]

Ultimately the problem is that there are too many people who still think that any fish you catch (or see if spearing) needs to be taken home. I don't mean just pike, it's all species. How many panfish go home in the bucket when the person already has a possession limit in the freezer? How many people don't know you can only have 1 pike over 30".

I believe that the people who actually partake in these forums are truely concerned for the fisheries. But like everything else in life you have to protect the fisheries from the ignorant or the ones who don't think it should apply to them. Until education can keep up with them, there will have to be size restrictions.

Maybe it's time for fishing education classes. Make them mandatory for every license holder. Teach the importance of selective harvest. Make the class something you have to attend in person, none of that online garbage. Teach how the larger predators keep themselves and other species in check. How that will i'mprove the overall average size of all species.

I know that this will cost money. Over time I think this would pay for itself. If the education starts to set in, maybe some lakes wouldn't need to be stocked as heavily. I understand that some lakes will always need to be stocked.

Merk I agree with your stand about needing more CO's. Since the CO in my area retired and was replaced, I haven't even seen the new one. I used to see the old one all the time. I personally wouldn't care if I get checked everytime I'm out. I have nothing to hide and I like the fact that someone does, might think twice before trying to break the law.

Merkman how would you feel about an all encompassing organization that is look out for the lakes as a whole. Not just Muskie, Pike, or Bass. But all of the species down to the panfish and even rough fish. All fish in a lake are intertwined in a complicated net. One effects the other from top to bottom.

[reinhard1]

have to respond to merkman. my question was[i dont know how to highlight yet],is it realy too much to have a few lakes to keep muskie fishing for the future? you responded by saying,"keep defending your right as a muskie fisherman to push who ever youwant off public lakes for no reason". mercman i am NOT a muskie fisherman. and i dont push anything on anyone. i asked earlier for you to highlight another comment i made. " i urge everyone to please realease all large predetors". must of missed it huh? as for the last posting-we are all adults and by setting an example to our children of proper fishing ethics, proper fishing ethics will continue. good luck.

[jeffreyd]

merk, one last question from your most recent post. you indicate that you have read my opinions but do not agree with them. of the the things that i have suggested, what do you not agree with? many of the things i put in the discussion where simple questions, to you, but did not get a straight answer. so as time has gone on, they question has come out clearer and more open.

you indicate that the MDAA was ignored and that the dnr is only trying to bring them back to the table to do it again? Is this issue with the MnDnr, the muskie guys, or the policies making process? To me as i said in a different post that this issue has been bothering you for a long time. It appears that there are a certain few people that you have heartburn over. Is it because they always get what they want? They "steamroll" the other groups? So why not introduce the MDAA as a "new and improved" group, that has scientist, concerned sportsmen and women, and industry to get your point across?

To Reinhart, i agree it might be time for the everyday citizen to take a fishing class similar to hunters ed. The hit to the online part, digs deep with me, as i am a full time student via online at Oregon State University, have done the AZ hunters ED course Online, and Have a degree in Business that i worked my tail off for via online.

I think the option needs to be given both in person and online. I do agree something needs to be done.

[reinhard1]

jeffreyd-a huge congradulations on your effort and achievments. my wife who is 52 got her masters degree and part of it was on line. me-high school grad with 3yrs junior college through the GI bill. maby your right about the classes. i'm wary of anything government other than the military. who would teach the classes? i would want someone who loves the outdoors, is knowlegable on the subject, and is a good speaker. not some boring numbers cruncher. thank you and good luck.

[foulpole18]

jeffrey I was the one who mentioned the online stuff. I think there is a huge difference between going to college because you want to better yourself, than something you have to do to fish. I have friends who did college courses online and I see that as just as valid as being in a classroom. My thought with having a fishing education course in a classroom is that the people who don't want to be there might be more easily influenced. I took a boating course when I was 16 and it was take home open book. It was a waste of time.

I hope I didn't offend you because of your online college courses. That wasn't my intention. I applaud your desire to improve yourself, I wish I had the time and desire to do the same.

[Gordie]

Ultimately the problem is that there are too many people who still think that any fish you catch (or see if spearing) needs to be taken home. I don't mean just pike, it's all species. How many panfish go home in the bucket when the person already has a possession limit in the freezer? How many people don't know you can only have 1 pike over 30".

I have been stateing this for quite some time.

Its that train of thought catch and keep to make it worth while or that feeling of achivement. that will ultimately kill our fisherys.

[cbrooks]

I like all the ideas that came out of this thread. If there was an organization form by all you guys sign me up. You don't have to agree with everyones opinions to be able to work with them as long as we have the same vision. Keep the ideas coming.

[jeffreyd]

My apologizes to both for the confusion. i will tell you if you have a few minutes, try taking the demo hunters ed quiz online at azgfd.gov. it is the hardest darn thing i have ever done, no open book. reinhart, the az game and fish with the help of the instructors from the community wrote and developed the online method, even those who worked on the project took the test and had problems with passing it. so does that mean it is too hard or written more for the management side of things? they have tweaked it to be a bit more user friendly, not easier but less grey areas. While it is managed by the gfd, this info is the same info that is taught at an in-person course.

online is the way of the future, one reason i believe that we are loosing our kids from the outdoors to modern technology and it is going to take an effort from everyone. Thanks for your words, they are kind, my intention was not bring light to myself simply saying that computers are the new teachers and whether we want to accept them or not, we are stuck.

I only chimed in on this issue as it is a "cause", however there are many differing thoughts on how this issue can be repaired. I am a firm believer that you (general term) as an organization or individual have to go in with the information and more to keep yourself educated. change stinks but it is going to happen whether we like it or not. Sometimes you just have to go with the flow and know that the overall mission is for the best of the system and not one person, group, or species.

[foulpole18]

Elwood I know I've seen you say it before. How can we as sportsmen speed the process of eliminating that attitude along? I'd like to hear ideas on how to do that versus arguing over who kills more large pike. That arguement goes nowhere as seen by the thousands of posts fighting back and forth.

[foulpole18]

No problem Jeffrreyd. I was just thinkin that having in person to get a license would make it an inconvience for the guy who goes out 1 or 2 times and harvest everything the catch. Maybe they wouldn't go out at all or maybe they would learn something at the course and change their ways.

Your right technology is the way of the future. But it also allows for people to cheat the system to. How could they make sure that the person taking the class online is actually the one behind the computer? How is it authenticated for you college classes. Last time I went to college, most of my classes were attend drunk or hungover. Boy I miss college sometimes.

[Gordie]

Elwood I know I've seen you say it before. How can we as sportsmen speed the process of eliminating that attitude along? I'd like to hear ideas on how to do that versus arguing over who kills more large pike. That arguement goes nowhere as seen by the thousands of posts fighting back and forth.

A very wise man told that you must lead by example. May not be the fastest way but the its the most effective way. I wish there was a way to snap our fingers and the problem would be solved but that would be to easy. I think these forums with all the input we have we've got a great start to make a differnce.We are spreading the word with every post we write and I agree the bickering on the who or how needs to stop as it makes us look petty and were not that type of people were the type that lead by example

[foulpole18]

Unfortunately Elwood I think your right. It's to bad that it going to take so much time. The catch and keep reasoning has been around alot longer than selective harvest. By the time it is the other way around it may be to late for some lakes.

[reinhard1]

i think this forum is valuable. discussing issues with different opinions is why there is a forum in the first place. getting personal is not part of this forum. i believe most of us on this forum set examples of good ethics and i'm sure pass it on to people who we fish with. i have an old saying too. you are who you associate with. your actions speak louder than any words. elwood i read your posts along with others. i see them in other forums as well. i dont know you personaly as well as others that contribute to this and other forums. after a while you can see character develope and know where people are comming from. as long as we are respectful of each other we can be a great tool to new people who join HSO. so bring on the ideas. i have changed some of my views because of this forum-and i'm a stuborn german. good luck.