Traffic law question regarding school buses

[DTro]

I was told that the bus should stop at the intersection because it's stop sign then controls the entire intersection and all vehicles must stop.

I like that clear definition, that makes sense.

Regarding a left turn there. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

[kevfish1]

DTRO- I think that Scouts choice to drop kids off at this location is far worse than you making a turn here. It is a very poor location for him to be letting kids get off the bus so close to an intersection. He has to acivate ambers and reds for a reason and how are vehicles on other roadways expected to get the prior warnings required?

Scout, Have you considered making the stop in a safer location so as to not create confusion?

[Jeremy airjer W]

Scout, Have you considered making the stop in a safer location so as to not create confusion?

If he stopped in the middle of the block and the students had to cross the road wouldn't it make it less safe for the students since they would have to cross the road after the bus leaves. By stopping at the intersection and "controlling" the intersection with his lights and sign he is at least making motorists aware that there are children exiting the bus and potentially crossing the roads.

[Juneau4]

Seems like moving the drop off spot back 50' would eliminate a lot of the gray areas and be safer for the kids. They'd only have to worry about traffic coming towards them or from behind and not from left and right also.

Maybe a short conversation with who ever has the bus company would help. If you can show that there is confusion by drivers which could endanger students They should be more than willing to change for child safety reasons.

[LightningBG]

If he stopped in the middle of the block and the students had to cross the road wouldn't it make it less safe for the students since they would have to cross the road after the bus leaves. By stopping at the intersection and "controlling" the intersection with his lights and sign he is at least making motorists aware that there are children exiting the bus and potentially crossing the roads.

If they needed to cross the road, they would do it right then while the bus had its lights on and the arms out / sign out.

[Juneau4]

In front of the bus with the driver being able to see them and the rest on a side walk or off the street on the boulevard.

[Jeremy airjer W]

If they needed to cross the road, they would do it right then while the bus had its lights on and the arms out / sign out.

What about the kids that still need to cross the intersection that has been stopped short of?

[LightningBG]

How about this situation that i run into frequently in my neighborhood.

I'm taking a right. The bus is to my left picking up a group of kids. None are crossing any roads at the time the bus is present.

Can I make this right turn while the bus is loading and has its lights on?

[LightningBG]

What about the kids that still need to cross the intersection that has been stopped short of?

If they are going perpendicular to the path of the bus, they would have already crossed.

If they are going parallel to the path of the bus, they are on their own. Lots of kids have to walk 2-3 blocks (7-8 blocks where i grew up) to get to the bus stop. The bus cant help them across every street. If they are too young to cross the street, their parents or caretaker should be coming to get them at the bus stop. (No one available? If they are too young to cross the street, they shouldn't be going home to an empty house anyways)

[DTro]

I would make that turn Lightning, but then the Officer might show up at my door.

[Juneau4]

When meeting or following a school bus, Red lights flashing and the stop arm extended you must stop. Those not on the street you are traveling on has no effect on you. If you turn onto the street they are on you have to stop.

[LightningBG]

When meeting or following a school bus, Red lights flashing and the stop arm extended you must stop. Those not on the street you are traveling on has no effect on you. If you turn onto the street they are on you have to stop.

So does that mean I could make the turn, but then would have to stop once on the same road? Even though I'm in front of him? I'm just kidding ya. I do make the turn all the time. Neither the bus driver nor any parents that stand there have ever given me any dirty looks.

On a separate note: at that very same intersection one day I was coming up to it and a cop was stopped in some weird position. Anyways, it was snowing and I had to bail for the ditch. I popped it in 4 and drove right back out. The cop was not amused. Messed up because it was his random stopping that caused it in the first place.

[Juneau4]

Drove a bus for years -Rule number 1: NEVER stop a bus to unload or load that is going to cause confusion for other drivers.

Secondary job. In my opinion anyone who does that ----well make your own opinion.

[BobT]

Another couple thoughts occurred to me.

Let's consider the intent of the law. I may be wrong but the purpose of the law is to provide the means for children that need to cross the roadway to be able to do it safetly. Without the law, a child could and probably has stepped out from in front or behind the bus to cross the road only to find he is suddenly in front of a vehicle passing the bus from one direction or the other. Very dangerous situation.

So, suppose dtro stops and waits for the bus to turn off the red lights and fold the signs before proceeding with his right turn. Will the bus driver wait for all the children to have crossed all the streets before he takes off so he knows that none of them will cross in front of dtro? What if some of the kids hang around on the sidewalk by bus BSing before they proceed home? Is the bus driver going to wait for them until he knows they are safely across all the streets they may cross? Once the kids are off the bus and none of them are actively crossing his lane, the bus driver will close the doors, fold the sign, turn off the lights, and proceed on his merry way leaving the kids to their own demise.

[wastewaterguru]

I really like the diagrams.

[kevfish1]

Airjer, No the bus driver should remain there until the student cross the road. Way less confusing to motorists than stopping near an intersection.

[kevfish1]

Dtro, I think you should contact the bussing company and suggest they instruct the driver to make the drop in the middle of the block. If you do that I bet the next day the drop is made in a different location.

[DTro]

It's all good. My house is right there. A couple minutes won't hurt anything.

[Shack]

LightningBG every morning on my way to work I drop my kids off in the same situation as you descried. Only thing different is I just have a Yield instead of a stop sign. I park about 20' behind where your car is positioned in the sketch up to let my kids out. This is pretty much a rural development drop off & pick up of about 10-20 kids (depends on the day). On cold or rain days, I let my kids sit in my car till the buss pulls up and hits its flashing red lights. It stops right where you placed your bus. To load all these kids can take up to 5-10 minutes depending on how quick and focus they are. When it came to any school bus I could see in plane site with flashing red lights, I stop and have always thought you had to stop. For the longest time I just sat their until the light went off but I still was not sure if I could sneak out in front of the bus before it crossed my intersection. Then to top it there are 3 other stops just out side of our development heading the way I go to work. I am pretty much the only parent who leaves for work right from the pick up area in the morning just for notation.

Long story short, on the right day (weather & kids) dropping my kids off at the bus stop can take upwards or over an addition 20 minutes on top of my normal 15 minute commute. Not to mention it brings me/flirts with being late to my job. One day I just asked the bus driver how she felt if I yielded to the right while the bus was still being loaded. She said she had no concern at all and she wondered why I never took advantage of the delay (and I guess wave on threw, which when I saw it I thought it was a friendly wave. ) she gave me all the time. I said I just figured I am their to stay until the bus is out of my way via turning down the co road legally.

I am sure more towards the city bus drivers might have different views on what is and is not acceptable. They'd primarily will be the ones notifying the police if a school buss violation occurs. Talking with them directly could help. Now as far as concerned parents or cops seeing something in plain site, that is another story.

[kevfish1]

Dtro- I agree with you but it could still cause confusion for someone else which could lead to someone getting hurt. Main concearn should be the safety of the kids. What about someon making a left turn there--- could be really bad

[DTro]

good point

[LightningBG]

Dtro- I agree with you but it could still cause confusion for someone else which could lead to someone getting hurt. Main concearn should be the safety of the kids. What about someone making a left turn there--- could be really bad

A left turn would be a different situation because you are passing pretty close to the bus while going into that far lane. If there was a kid crossing in front of the bus (out around that arm thing) you would be way too close.

[SkunkedAgain]

I think that in general, you just stop in any of those situations...no rolling stops, no yields. The questions here shouldn't be can I turn (so I can get to the office/home/etc quicker), but how can I handle this situation to ensure that I don't run over any kids. I don't have any kids but have no problem waiting for a bus to finish it's business. Kids do all kinds of crazy things and come running out of all directions to catch them, almost like the ice cream truck. If the guy behind me honks is horn, I'll point to the bus and continue waiting. If he/she gets really agitated, they get the one finger salute. Again, I have no problem [PoorWordUsage] off another driver if it means keeping kids safe.

Many mornings at the bottom of my street, a bus picks up kids in front of their house. He's on the top of an uncontrolled T-intersection and I come from the stem of the T. When he throws out that stop sign, I sit at the intersection and wait, even though I know where the kids are coming from. I get to work 30 seconds later....so everyone is happy!

[kevfish1]

exactly and that is why the driver should not be making the stop where he is. Motorists have a responsibility but so does the bus driver

[SFC]

The only thought I've had about this whole thread is that dtro has simply and politely asked for opinions or clarifications about whether he was or would be doing something illegal under the circumstances. I can't help it but sense a certain antagonism from SscoutII in his replies. I understand that maybe he deals with a lot of buttheads out there on the road but it just doesn't seem that it justifies he being so aggressive. Maybe I'm misinterpreting a little?

Aggressive, that wasnt my take on his responses!