New Vikings Stadium on Da Move Forward (Part 9).

[harvey lee]

Heck, I would be OK with just about anything to keep the Vikes here. Problem is, our elected officials do not think like myself.

I just do not see our elected officials doing it this session.

Next year maybe if its not to late.

[bassNspear]

i think its going to be hard pressed to get a stadium here in MN. Where are they thinking of building this anyway?

[CJH]

Heck, I would be OK with just about anything to keep the Vikes here. Problem is, our elected officials do not think like myself.

Thank God!!

After the unallotment was overturned our debt went from rediculous half a billion dollars to a mind boggling two billion dollars. There are going to have to be some tough decisions made and I don't think football deserves a penny.

[harvey lee]

Maybe football doesn't deserve anything by you, but don't get upset when jobs and income to the state leave with the Vikes.

[Shack]

Tom & CJH I do agree. 4WE great minds think alike. I firmly believe the stadium debt is over for this session? I do not think it went any further last week? This is an election year also and we all know what that means.

BNS I think they are entertaining tearing down the Dome and using the Dome site while leaving one wall from the Dome. They also have mentioned 3-4 other key locations and I know/read Anoka County has no hard feelings and would work once again "if" the Vikes come a-calling.

I don't think football deserves a penny

Maybe so CJH, but it is a fact that MN has deep ruts in football history. The current Viking's fan base (I am assuming) in MN and across the globe is most likely the largest it has ever been. I feel it will grow even further. If the Vikings go or stay IMO is what life will bring us. Who knows? The one thing I do know is Minnesota is a "Save First, Pay Triple Later" thinking kind-of state. Again, personally I will get over not having the Vikings in due time. If I could predict anything, the majority of the MN will not and I personally do not look forward to every news report, headline, topic on ever street corner, radio this and that, dwelling on the Vikings moving to L.A...

The Vikings & Football have become so "mainstream" in Minnesota's culture, I would definitely put it over Hockey (MN is hockey central). To be straight forward , I would put Vikings/football over fishing & hunting (combined) as far as personal interest among the states residents. Could be a close call, but just imagine if they announced "Due to budget allocations/cuts, no fishing or hunting. We let California have them and the state will save a bunch of money". More of a joke, but I also thought the chance of the Vikings leaving was always kind of joke.

Would it be harder to loose the Vikings to L.A. (or anywhere for that matter) if they win the Super Bowl next season or loose in the play-offs or worse?

Quote:

Originally Posted By: harvey lee

Maybe football doesn't deserve anything by you, but don't get upset when jobs and income to the state leave with the Vikes.

Good point Tom. For those who are allowed to follow the Vikings to their possible future location will take their State Income Tax & spent Sales Tax with them as well.

[LMITOUT]

Maybe football doesn't deserve anything by you, but don't get upset when jobs and income to the state leave with the Vikes.

And hopefully nobody gets upset when business owners take their jobs and income out of the state due to the higher taxes imposed on them and everyone else to pay for a billionaire's new play pen.

[CJH]

Maybe football doesn't deserve anything by you, but don't get upset when jobs and income to the state leave with the Vikes.

Not upset one bit. The Vikes don't employ that many people and it would take an awful lot of taxes to recoup the 3/4 of a billion dollars we would put up for a stadium and the 10 games a year they play at home.

How are you going to pay for our 2 billion dollar deficit + 3/4 billion dollars for the new stadium?

A sport owned by billionaire's and played by millionaires doesn't deserve a cent of public money.

[harvey lee]

Originally Posted By: harvey lee

Maybe football doesn't deserve anything by you, but don't get upset when jobs and income to the state leave with the Vikes.

And hopefully nobody gets upset when business owners take their jobs and income out of the state due to the higher taxes imposed on them and everyone else to pay for a billionaire's new play pen.

I should have figured as much.

[harvey lee]

Originally Posted By: harvey lee

Maybe football doesn't deserve anything by you, but don't get upset when jobs and income to the state leave with the Vikes.

Not upset one bit. The Vikes don't employ that many people and it would take an awful lot of taxes to recoup the 3/4 of a billion dollars we would put up for a stadium and the 10 games a year they play at home.

How are you going to pay for our 2 billion dollar deficit + 3/4 billion dollars for the new stadium?

A sport owned by billionaire's and played by millionaires doesn't deserve a cent of public money.

Nobody has put up anything. This can happen without your fears.

I have no idea how I will pay for Pawlenty's mistakes.

[bassNspear]

will be interesting to see if this does go and if we get a new one.

[Shack]

CJH the state/Mpls would not be paying upfront the total 800,000,000.00. Plus the Vikings will still have a "Lease" payment due on the new stadium. I think the teams upfront responsibility (out of pocket) is around $250-$260 (what they would like) & not to mention the NFL kicking in over $100-$150,000,000.00. I also thought back in 2005 (another time & place I know) Anoka County was will to cough up around $200,000,000.00 when it was going to built in Blaine for half of what it costs now. Thank you Minnesota Legislature.

Limit I know the little mom & pop stores that would not be able to compete with the extra taxes are a causality. Where ever a stadium goes up, I will bet their will be business lined up & waiting to get square footage anywhere within 10 miles of the new Vikings stadium. Loosing a small work forces is one thing. Loosing sleep over Hooters verses Applebee's and them having to charge extra for tax and if people will come or not, is for the da-birds.

Vikings Stadium Bill Introduced: Purple Plan, White Plan

Plan calls for scratch-off game, jersey taxes

Updated: Monday, 03 May 2010, 10:28 PM CDT

Published : Monday, 03 May 2010, 10:46 AM CDT

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Rumors, speculation and closed-door discussions have all led up to a Minnesota Vikings stadium bill introduced Monday at the State Capitol.

Rep. Loren Solberg (DFL-Grand Rapids) said only those who would benefit from a Vikings stadium would pay for it. The bipartisan bill calls the Vikings to pay for half the cost of the fixed-roof, multi-purpose stadium, with the rest covered by a scratch-off lottery game and taxes on rental cars, area hotels and jersey purchases.

"We’re encouraged," Vikings Vice President of Public Affairs and Stadium Development Lester Bagley said. "There's enough time in the session that we can package something together that fits Minnesota and those who use or benefit should pay."

Time is surely a factor. The bipartisan bill starts a fast-ticking clock to get a stadium deal done this spring, with only about two weeks remaining in the legislative session. But before a stadium bill is address, Minnesota legislatures must first deal with the budget.

“Our highest priority is balancing the state budget,” Solberg said. “Until the budget is balanced, we will not send this bill to the governor’s desk. We will not pass a bill that adds a nickel to the deficit, or takes a dime from nursing homes, schools, roads, or hospitals.”

“No deals have been made, and no plans are set in stone,” Sen. Julie Rosen (R-Fairmont) said. “Like every other bill the legislature considers, this bill will be fully vetted in committee. Amendments will be offered, and public testimony will be taken. This decision will not be made in some back room – it will be made by all Minnesotans through an honest and responsible legislative process.”

The plan requires no money from the state's general fund be used for a Vikings stadium, protecting money for schools, roads, healthcare or other state programs. The Vikings would pay $264 million up-front for construction costs. The remaining $527 million would be paid over 40 years, covered with specific taxes and a lottery game and broken down like this:

Area hotels (1.5% surtax): $8 million

Jersey purchases (6.875%): $16.9 million

Sports-themed scratch off: $5.5 million

Rental cars: $5.5 million

The plan requires any cost overruns to be paid in full by the Vikings. The team would also be required to sign a 40-year lease on the new stadium, protecting taxpayers if the team is sold and relocated.

Two versions of the plan were introduced with the bill: the Purple Plan and the White Plan.

Purple Plan: PDF White Plan: PDF

Under the Purple Plan, the Minnesota Stadium Authority would be established. The plan is also site-neutral, allowing any city to bid for the stadium. Under the White Plan, the stadium would be owned and operated by the city of Minneapolis, which could also use downtown entertainment taxes to pay for the stadium. Those taxes are currently applied toward the Minneapolis Convention Center, which will be paid off in 2020.

Minneapolis likes the idea of a public-private partnership, but is cool to using tax money from the Convention Center for a stadium. Mayor R.T. Rybak says no detailed talks have taken place between lawmakers, the Vikings and city hall. Hennepin County Commissioner Mike Opat says the same is true on the county level.

Anoka County, Ramsey County and the city of St. Paul are also possibilities at this point, but nothing is confirmed.

If built, the stadium could host up to 300 major events annually, including conventions, concerts and amateur sports events. Bids would also be placed for the Super Bowl, NCAA men's basketball Final Four and other high-profile events.

Quote:

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) ―

The ceremonial first pitch at Target Field today from a man to whom the Minnesota Twins may owe a great deal: Hennepin County Commissioner Mike Opat.

Opat led the drive to build the ballpark in downtown Minneapolis. The county imposed a sales tax to pay for Target Field, some of the money is used for local projects that have nothing to do with the Twins.

At the time, the bill was so controversial it passed the legislature in the middle of the night by just one vote.

No one lost an election because of it. And even opponents of stadium subsidies were excited.

Here's the REALITY.

Hennepin County put up the money, $350 million over 30 years, funded by a .015 percent sales tax.

For every $20 spent on taxable items in Hennepin County, there's an extra three cents tacked on for the ballpark.

But the money pays for a lot more than just Target Field.

IN FACT....

Thirteen Hennepin County public libraries are open more days and longer hours because of the stadium tax.

The law requires up to $2 million of the stadium sales tax -- every year -- must be used to extend library hours. They're called Ballpark Sundays and Mondays.

That's NOT THE WHOLE STORY.

Part of the stadium tax will go to local youth sports programs.

The Minnesota Amateur Sports Commission has already awarded the first 17 grants.

Some are as small as $10,000 for tee-ball fields in Corcoran, while others are as large as $345,000 for lighting baseball fields in St. Anthony Village.

For the next 30 years, the stadium sales tax will build, repair and renovate amateur sports facilities across Hennepin County.

Here is what you NEED TO KNOW.

Target Field's price tag is $545 million.

Hennepin County taxpayers will put up a total of $350 million over the next 30 years.

The Twins share is $195 million. That's just a little more than Joe Mauer's 8-year contract.

That's Reality Check.

Again, if you go down to Target Field before or after the game, spread out about 4-6 blocks and try to buy a beer or check out from a retailer this week. If you just got off the space ship from Mars, you would have "no clue" this county and state is in any kind of slump or recession.

This is just a little bit of this article:

Quote:

Northstar drawing SRO crowds for Twins games

Twins fans heading to the ballpark from the north and west are enjoying the ride.

By PAUL LEVY, Star Tribune

As the Twins play to near-sellout crowds at Target Field, the Northstar trains taking fans to and from games are doing a standing-room-only business of their own.

Trains scheduled specifically for Twins games have become so popular that a sixth passenger car has been added to each one -- even though platforms can readily accommodate only five.

A train added specifically for the game against Boston on Thursday, April 15, attracted so many Northstar riders -- 2,118 -- that two buses had to be sent to the Fridley station for fans who couldn't get on the train, said Metro Transit spokesman Bob Gibbons.

Many Twins fans from western Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota are driving to Big Lake and then using the Northstar family rate to take the 41-mile ride to Target Field and avoiding downtown parking fees and hassles, said Chuck Heintz, a Big Lake City Council member who referred to surveys of license plates taken in Northstar lots.

In addition, some fans from northeast Minneapolis appear to be driving to Fridley and taking Northstar trains downtown, Gibbons said. On most business days, 125 cars park in the Fridley Northstar lot. But during a recent weekend game, that number was 254, Gibbons said.

"We want people to get acquainted with Northstar," Gibbons said of the six-month-old commuter line that runs between Big Lake and Target Field, with stops in Elk River, Anoka, Coon Rapids and Fridley. "And the excellent ridership we're getting for Twins games is helping us do that."

I will bet that not one business has moved around Target Field since it has opened or the additional sales tax was implemented solely because the taxes went up. Why would they? They are making BooKoo bucks from the bags of popcorn to our hotel being booked solid because of the rain delay and people wanted to go to both games on Saturday and the one on Sunday.

[LMITOUT]

Limit I know the little mom & pop stores that would not be able to compete with the extra taxes are a causality, but where ever a stadium goes up, I will bet their will be business lined up & waiting to get square footage anywhere within 10 miles of the new Vikings stadium. Loosing a small work forces is one thing. Loosing sleep over Hooters verses Applebee's and them having to charge extra for tax and if people will come or not, is for the da-birds.

Unfortunately we don't live in Shangri-La like some think we do.

[Shack]

Shangri-La is alive & well in Downtown Mpls., Blaine, Rogers and the Elk River area. New stores coming all the time and Mpls. was crazy. Makes ya wonder how our state butchered things so badly when the econ. is so bad that Target Field fills it's seats every time.

It does seem silly concerning this issue, but I sure would not like to see the Vikes leave.

[CJH]

Nobody has put up anything. This can happen without your fears.

I have no idea how I will pay for Pawlenty's mistakes.

You mean the legislature not doing its job, sending a budget to TPaw that Constitutionally can't be approved?? (yes we have to balance the budget legally in our state - thank god!!!) Come on now.

Shak - You like to write!! I am more open to something that is paid for with fees that are a "Pay to Play" setup. IE: A tax on tickets, event parking, concessions, etc... However I believe a county wide tax is just that - too wide. Not only that, but I shouldn't have to pay sales tax on all the things I need to live my life, just so the Vikes can have a stadium. Thank God I recently moved out of Hennepin County!!

Remember also, the Vikes don't want a roof and want the state to pay for it. So I don't think we can bet on 330 events/year or whatever unrealistic number they come up with. (I am sorry, but roller blading in the stadium shouldn't count as an "event".)

[Shack]

I have to look back but I think the Vikes are willing to front half the roof. St. Paul wants them to pay it in full. If the Vikings have ownership rights the the stadium, that would be another story. As far as I can tell they own nothing and the county which the stadium is built owns and profits (pays back) the money from earnings and taxes. Then the county gets the lease payment in lue-of...

Kind of like leasing a new car for bussiness, putting $10,000 worth of aftermarket stuff on it, making money with it only to turn it in at the end of the lease. Lease means you own nothing.

[PierBridge]

I certainly have no qualms with anybody that doesn't think we should give one red cent for a New Stadium. And frankly they are probably right to be honest.

I guess being a football fanatic I have my own selfish reasons for wanting a stadium anyway we can get it....so I apologize for that.

Fine then, we "mpls" already helped build a couple play pens so what the heck let's build her and be done with it, for my lifetime anywhoo.

[SkunkedAgain]

I'm a little late to the conversation, but do have some statistics for everyone. I compiled this a few years ago for work purposes. The source was the Metropolitan Sports Commission:

Since 1961 (when the Twins came to town) the Twins/Vikings/Timberwolves/Northstars/Wild have combined to generate $345 million in taxes for the State of Minnesota. This includes payroll/income taxes, liquor taxes, admissions taxes, and sales taxes. I was never able to confirm if the $345M was inflated to today's dollars or not.

Those Minnesota sports teams utilized $188 million in public funding to build their respective stadiums/arenas. Those unadjusted public expenditures were:

$0 Met Stadium (privately funded)

$7M Met Center (1967 dollars)

$63M Metrodome (1982 dollars)

$23M Target Center (1990 dollars)

$95M Xcel Center (2000 dollars)

So by looking at these numbers, those public expenditures were paid back in tax revenues over time. I doubt that the new Twins/Gophers/Vikings stadiums would have such a payback because the public-to-private ratios are so much higher.

[harvey lee]

Your numbers show it would be a mistake to not keep these sports teams. Much lost revenue.

[SkunkedAgain]

They only show the past, not the future. Plus it factors in stadiums (like the Met) that were privately funded 100% yet revenue was still realized by the State. Now that the Vikings are asking for 2/3rds of the cost to be publicly funded, I doubt that they could generate the payback in tax revenues. All of the teams combined generated only $345 million over 46 years.

I'm just throwing out the numbers. There are many ways that they can be interpreted and applied to the current discussion.

[PierBridge]

There are a lot more cost to the tax payers than just the money used to build the stadiums!

[FISHINGURU]

Git Er Dun

[mrklean]

lets just legalize wacky weed and tax that like 50% that stadium will be paid for in months

[PierBridge]

Please keep all of the Wacky Tabacky talk in the Catfish Forum!...

[Shack]

MK that would threaten the local Metro Twin Cities dealer group with bankruptcy, which in turn would start a snowballing bailout program in their favor. The property taxes in Hennipen county would within 2 years sky rocket 20%. One: to cover special bailout programs. The state would site Hennipen county as the originating cause of the need for state bailouts. Two: due to increased property values because of lowered crime and decreasing line-of-sight drug sales..

The citizenship of Hennipen county would be in such an uproar, the state would have to propose a local sales tax increase to table spiking property tax increases.

Plus I am not sure how that will float over when our new stadiums name would include "build on weed".

[mrklean]

on the plus side im sure the stadium would be really colorful and psychedelic