Fish & Ski / Fish & Sport Boats

[gregg52]

Ya Kdawg is right buying is part of the fun

just get in em and check em out this time of the year some dealers may give you aride if their close to water

if your jn brainerd i'll scoot you across gull

today would be a good day i just went to the store gull is rolling white caps

you would love the DRY RIDE today as in Yar Craft

[servocam]

Thanks guys. I did just get a new work car and my wife and I enjoyed test driving a ton of vehicles (do this every 3 years). The boat shopping will be the same way, just that I am not familiar with them all, the motors, the trolling, finders...and not as easy to just take them for a stroll. We did just decide to complete the basement because Child #5 on the way, so my boat budget was axed in half, so it is pry best I spend this year doing my research this year, go to the boat show in 2011 (January 20-23, 2011), then decide. Goal would to find something that will last for next 10 years. I'd rather not buy someting now to just want something else next year (though that could happen even w/ brand new boat too)

So how many of you ordered yours from the factory or just picked it up off the show room floor?

I also have a question about Engines. Is there really a lot of difference in them? For example, I'm told Evinrude is a good way to go, especially compared to the Yamaha on the Skeeter. I did get some pricing if anyone is interested:

200HP Yamaha $16,750

200HP Evin E-Tec $14,595 / HO version $15,350

225HP Evin E-Tec $16,095 / HO version $17,395

Is there really that much difference in the motors / drive. 200HP is 200HP, but then you have the drive train, the quality of the engine, maintenance, efficiency, how loud it is...

I suppose torque curve is more important then HP (as HP is a speed times torque divided by a constant)....boats seem to be much more complex than hot rods (or maybe that is just because I don't really know much about boats and you are all starting to think I'm making things too complex :-)

[hydro]

I think you need to take a step back and relax. You cannot engineer your way through a decision like selecting a boat. Also, asking for hard information in an internet discussion board will only get you opinions (like is Chevy better than Ford) and very little factual information. Take your time, look at different boat layouts and think about what works best for your needs, then decide based what you can afford, store, maintain, and tow.

[kdawg]

so it is pry best I spend this year doing my research this year, go to the boat show in 2011 (January 20-23, 2011), then decide. Goal would to find something that will last for next 10 years. I'd rather not buy someting now to just want something else next year (though that could happen even w/ brand new boat too)

** Probably one of the wisest statements ever uttered on this site. I would much rather wait a year and buy the rig that I'm gonna want to keep, rather than buy this year, pay taxes, etc., then have to sell and go through process/expense again next year.

So how many of you ordered yours from the factory or just picked it up off the show room floor?

** I couldn't find a boat, in stock, that I was in love with. I figure if I'm going to spend a ton of dough, I better like everything about the boat, and not just settle for the color scheme that's on the floor. It sux having to wait 6-8 weeks, but at least I know I'm getting what I want with no regrets.

I also have a question about Engines. Is there really a lot of difference in them? For example, I'm told Evinrude is a good way to go, especially compared to the Yamaha on the Skeeter. I did get some pricing if anyone is interested:

** I don't know where you would have heard that, but no motor manufacturer out there has a better reputation than Yamaha. Don't get me wrong, I think they ALL make very good motors, but it's been common knowledge that Yamaha has set the standard in 4 strokes...Personally, I'd just as easily buy a Johnson/Suzuki, or any of the other brands as well because I believe they all make good motors, it's just that mine came packaged with a Yamaha.

[servocam]

I think you need to take a step back and relax. You cannot engineer your way through a decision like selecting a boat. Also, asking for hard information in an internet discussion board will only get you opinions (like is Chevy better than Ford) and very little factual information. Take your time, look at different boat layouts and think about what works best for your needs, then decide based what you can afford, store, maintain, and tow.

LOL...if you knew me personally, you know the word relax does not fit in my vocabulary...but taking a step back I did (as waiting until next year to buy a boat). Opinnions is why I started this thread and I welcome them all. I will take the advice, the opinnions, and I will form my own.

...and after page 50 and we close this thread, I will pry owe all my e-friends a few beers :-)

[B D]

We were in a similar spot a few years ago. We fish a lot, and run the boat a lot with the family (kids, dog, etc.) My main criteria were fishing, skiing, family friendly, fit in our garage (under 18.5 ft). I will just outline a few features we have really enjoyed over the years and that have helped the boat flex to meet our needs (in no particular order):

- snap out carpet (if its going fishing for the weekend, i snap these out, hose it out when we get back and snap the carpet back in)

- flip up rear seats for added seating (or down to form part of the rear casting deck)

- enough power to pull up adults on slalom skis and scare tubers . . . . and top end to reasonably get out to the flats at Mille Lacs or keep up with our "cruising boat" friends

- storage (can't have enough)

- in floor rod locker (rods come with always, but are out of sight)

- depth (deep v hull - side walls of boat are at kids chest when they are young and the depth is also nice in Mille Lacs rollers or in Leech Lake chop)

- full windshield (for rough lakes fishing or keeping the family out of the wind cruising in the summer - if this was a glass boat this may be less important to handle the spray)

- convertible bow (casting platform / boat cushions)

- top set with side curtains (nice in early spring late fall fishing, also nice for shade on hot Lake Minnetonka summer days)

- sizeable built in ice storage (with your numbers, you won't want coolers, etc. to deal with)

- boarding ladder / platform on the rear (getting in and out once beached or when tubing, etc.)

- full roller trailer (this boat has been through extremely shallow landings)

- ability to flexibly move mounts for trolling rods, tools, drinks around boat without drilling (needs change from a fishing trip to a day out with the family)

The intent was to lay out features not sell Lund - but the features above are from a 2006 1800 Fisherman with a 150 Mercury Optimax.

Obviously many boats will have many of these things - but finding the one that best meets your needs is the challenge. Good luck and keep us posted !

[jac714]

I would think that many of us who own boats would probably find be willing to at the least look at (crawl around on) our boats and I would, at least, be willing to take you out for a day of fishing (not that you are looking at a boat like mine) so you could see how well different layouts/boats work for you.

Chaeck the Open seats topic, folks here are great about sharing their toys. :-)

[gregg52]

I thought BD was descriding my boat

snap out carpet lots of storage etc etc

lots of storage was a key to me buying my boat and in floor rod lockers never nothing bounceing around your feet or worrying bout steping on a 150$$ rod

that snap out carpet is the cats meow

i never put mine back in fish with crawlers alot

once every 6 weeks or so scrub brush and warm bucket of water floor looks like new again

[servocam]

Thanks for the info.

So on to the hull design [and the part where I start to drive Hydro nuts w/ my Engineering questions], you can find different depth hulls. I understand, kinda, the hull design, I think.

Flat hull has to be rough and not for a speed boat - low draft, works for shallows and calm water and I bet it gets up on the plane quickly???

Your typical bass boat appears to have a semi-shallow, but still a v-design. So this I would assume is going to be for, well, bass fishing, and calmer water, being able to get in the shallows, but still being able to get up and go.

Then you have the bass-boat with the deeper-v and then boats I see called Deep V for "big waters." I am making the assumption that Lake Superior falls in to this category, but Mille Lacs would not? The V looks like a knife to "cut" through the water. I also assume that the V helps with maneuvering the boat - based on thinking that flat had nothing to cut in to where the V does (I'm think racing slicks vs off-road tires on the front of your car and trying to turn corners in the dirt)?

For example, lets look at the Skeeter SL190 vs SL1900, the V in the SL1900 hull is much longer than SL190. I think this is what is called dead-rise??? Or is dead rise in the beam direction and not the length??? The SL1900 draft is 15 inches vs the SL190 13 inch.

The SL1900 had deeper storage in the front, but it also weighed 325 lbs less.

SL1900 Dry Weight: 1975 lbs

SL190 Dry Weight: 1500 lbs

What I also notice is that the SL1900 max HP rating is 200HP vs 175HP in the SL190. I make the assumption then the SL1900 is harder to push (it is heavier, more displacement), or is the longer hull length make it more stable, thus the ability to safely put more power in to it?

How often is storage an issue for you all? gregg52, based on what you say, and thinking of my kitchen, closet, or garage, there is never enough room to put all your stuff. The SL1900 front compartments had a ton more room, that that would be important.

Thank you again for all the opinions and info.

[Shorelunch]

Then you have the bass-boat with the deeper-v and then boats I see called Deep V for "big waters." I am making the assumption that Lake Superior falls in to this category, but Mille Lacs would not? The V looks like a knife to "cut" through the water. I also assume that the V helps with maneuvering the boat - based on thinking that flat had nothing to cut in to where the V does (I'm think racing slicks vs off-road tires on the front of your car and trying to turn corners in the dirt)?

For example, lets look at the Skeeter SL190 vs SL1900, the V in the SL1900 hull is much longer than SL190. I think this is what is called dead-rise??? Or is dead rise in the beam direction and not the length??? The SL1900 draft is 15 inches vs the SL190 13 inch.

I think you may want to look at the Skeeter WX1850 instead of the SL series. The WX series has a deeper V and is more comparable to the 1850 Reata and the Triton 192 Allure. All three are great boats! I'm not sure what dealers in MN are selling Tritons though.

[hydro]

Well Servocam, you sure do have lots of questions. Here are some things to bounce around tonight.

As for hull design, there are as many different designs as there are applications. You mentioned a couple of the more common types, the shallow angle “V” design found in bass boats, and the modified deep angle “V” design found in many fishing and pleasure boats. (The cross sectional angle of the hull with reference to horizontal is referred to as “dead rise”) Other hull designs include catamaran, tunnel, modified tunnel vee, tri-hull, displacement, flat bottom, step vee, pontoon, round chine, and more. Each has features that adapt to their intended application. Many are for high speed use and utilize air to lift the hull from the surface of the water, or balance on narrow flat pads at high speed. Those boats can be scary fast and don’t make kid friendly rides (although I’ve left some big smiles on kids faces after a ride!). For the sake of your quest, you are looking at the modified vee design only.

This design of hull uses a “V” shape with a moderate angle of dead rise that for the sake of argument comes to a point at the keel. The transom can be recessed to add leverage for the outboard motor, and there are usually additional keels or lifting strakes built into the hull profile. Occasionally there may be small steps in the hull or strakes to break the friction of water with the intent of allowing increased speed. As you can imagine, the shape of the hull cuts through the water and pushes it to either side when underway, and this provides a cushioning effect that smoothens the ride. This hull design carries a load well and gives a good ride quality in both smooth and rough water. Since this hull shape is not intended for high speeds, it tends to ride in the surface of the water rather than on top of it, and the addition of lifting strakes (or keels on aluminum boats) help stabilize the boat and also provide a fulcrum point to pivot the boat during turns. Every manufacturer handles this concept a little differently and with varying degrees of success.

Ride quality or smoothness is a function of the dead rise angle of the vee, the strake and chine combination, and the aspect ratio of wetted length to the width of the hull surface. Here you can imagine the water surface (wave) to be roughly sinusoidal in nature and the more waves the hull contacts, the smoother the ride, distributing the shock generated by the total cross sectional area (width) across several wave peaks. The higher the dead rise angle in combination with the effect above, the better the cushioning effect, since the shock is dissipated tangentially from the axis of the hull. All things considered, longer is better here.

Now here’s where this all gets complicated and easy at the same time. Since all of these variables are interdependent, and interact at differing magnitudes in different conditions, you really cannot isolate them on paper to predict how the hull will perform. At this point it really becomes a “seat of the pants” process to see which hull design and length you prefer for your application. Best bet is to contact dealers and try to get water time at “on the water” boat shows this summer. Then, after all of that research, the wife inevitably gets involved, notices the red and beige boat with the cushy seating on the other side of the dock, and seals the deal for you.

[servocam]

Thank you Hydro for the details and now I have clarification of these terms (which I could of just Goggled, but what fun would that be?).

Deadrise is the angle from the bottom of the hull / keel on up. This angle can change (and usually does) from bow to stern.

Chine is where the deadrise meets the side of the boat or the distinct change of angle (deadrise).

Lifting Strakes are the ridges you see along the hull over the length of the boat / parallel with the keel.

Keel I know from my days sailing on Lake Michigan. Of course the boats I’m looking at don't have a 3ft keel. Keel is for stability and keep the boat from capsizing (stabilize in the roll moment). Strakes help act like additional keels the way it sounds. You use the word "Lifting" as the flat would pus the boat up out of the water. They also help stabilize and give a smoother ride.

This is all starting to make sense and I can see why the Deep V is for "Big Water" as you essentially are cutting down in to the water more have more surface area to soften the ride over the waves. This also helps with the rolling, so more stable in the big waves. The deeper hull has its downside as well (no free lunch is there). You dig deeper, so more water resistance / more to displace = less efficiency = more power and more fuel consumption. So we add some strakes and to try to get more lift, more roll stability. Again, a give and take from hull depth, dead-rise, strakes and effects on the ride and the efficiency for the water it is designed for.

So yes, the best thing I can do is take a few for test drives. I'm not really worried about the design as that is what the boat people do for a living, but I am curious how they ride, again, taking example, the Skeeter SL190 vs. SL1900 as they have different hull designs.

Next topic...hmmm...mabye more in to the Engines…but first I’ll have to think a little :-)

[yaggie]

I bought a Triton Allure and it fits the bill perfectly. This was a new 2009 model which was fully equipt for much less than 36000. Only problem in your case is it weighs in fully loaded at 4100 lbs. A Reata would be the same. For short trips this would be no problem as they are sold with trailers with breaks. Many 18 foot units are sold with out breaks. After towing this rig I would not pull a 17 footer without breaks.

I was sold on the allure when I first saw it at the state fair. The amount of room is huge. This is a true family boat yet a serious fishing boat. I had aluminum boats for years and thought I would never have one of those speckled boats but found this rig cheaper than Alumicraft tourny Sport which was my second choice.

Just take your time with your purchase and check all brands. Pontoons have been mentioned and they have their place but you can not mention boat control and poontoons in the same sentence. We tried this to.

If you want to check out an Allure first hand just let me know.

Good luck!!

[servocam]

Thanks yaggie. Closest dealer is 83 miles in Chippewa Falls, WI.

[Jaypo]

I have the Skeeter SL190 with a Yami f150. Comfortable, quiet, fast (58 mph on GPS), tows kids on tubes well. Need to get a lower pitch prop as the power really lags with an adult skier. My 2 complaints are space in the seating area and the number of passengers available (5) and the shallowness of the hull. I have gotten really beaten up on the St. Croix or other larger waters when they get rough. In retrospect, I wish I would have taken a longer look at the 1850 Reata. More space, higher windshield, and well designed. Was $10K more than my Skeeter which made all the difference in the world.

[gregg52]

if you got in my boat

you would buy it in a minute

[servocam]

I have the Skeeter SL190 with a Yami f150. Comfortable, quiet, fast (58 mph on GPS), tows kids on tubes well. Need to get a lower pitch prop as the power really lags with an adult skier. My 2 complaints are space in the seating area and the number of passengers available (5) and the shallowness of the hull. I have gotten really beaten up on the St. Croix or other larger waters when they get rough. In retrospect, I wish I would have taken a longer look at the 1850 Reata. More space, higher windshield, and well designed. Was $10K more than my Skeeter which made all the difference in the world.

58mph is plenty fast. Did you look at the SL1900? It has a lot more storage in the front compartments as the hull is deeper up front. I have not made it to look at the Reata yet. I plan to make it over to Fankies in Chisago as they cary both Ranger and Skeeter.

[servocam]

if you got in my boat

you would buy it in a minute

I did look at the Yar-Craft boats on-line and the 186FSX fits what I am looking for. It is pretty heavy for that length (2100 lbs dry). 99" beam makes it good and wide and looks like a nice deep hull, so storage in front compartments I bet are really good. The Performance Bulletin / Yamaha Performance Report is nice to see. There is a dealer, The Dry Dock, in Hudson, WI, not too far away.

On their HSOforum I saw POLARKRAFT - Interesting looking deck boat. Seating like a pontoon with the style of a aluminum fishing boat.

[gregg52]

try Lybacks on mille lacs i think you will get a better deal

that guy at the dry is.....maybe not the best to work with

they might be a little heavier

but thats cuz they are built to last

put some of that e-tec power on it you are good to go

[servocam]

I have a question about when manufactures specify Dry Weight. This the weight of the boat only, correct (No trailer, no motor, etc.)?

Looking at trailers for boats in the 18-19 ft range, single-axle roller is ~500 lbs. Tandem axle is in the 750-1000lbs.

I assume it does not include the motor. (200HP Yam is ~600 lbs, a 150HP is ~500 lbs).

[boatfixer]

the dry weight of a boat is the boat only, you are correct, you would have to add the weight of the engine.

[servocam]

Wow, stuff really adds up in a hurry...looking at a few different boats, motor, the trailer and the rest of the stuff.

Boat Weight.....1380.....1850.....1500.....1975.....1650 lbs

Trailer Weight....500.......500......750......750.......750 lbs

Fuel Weight.......186.......186......186......186.......248 lbs

Motor Weight.....475.......475......475......593.......593 lbs

2 Batteries.........100.......100......100......100.......100 lbs

Troll/Fdr/GPS.......50.........50.......50.......50.........50 lbs

Gear/Misc.........100........100......100......100.......100 lbs

======================================================

Total Weight.....2791......3261.....3161.....3754.....3491 lbs

I was reading some other posts about people not realizing how much their boat & trailer weighs. Any of you ever take it to a scale and weigh it? Was your guess close?

[bassNspear]

ya, it all adds up fast