Should I stud my dog or get him fixed?

[WhiskeyWoods]

Hi all, I had to move to Texas for work and was down there about 2.5 years. I got my chocolate lab down there. I knew the breeders and saw the father and mother on site (Father was a big yellow and mother was an average chocolate.)I have all the AKC paperwork and was wondering if I should hold off on getting him fixed because maybe he would be sought after from some kennels up here for a stud bringing different blood lines into this area to help combat genetic issues. Unfortunately no pics handy of him right now but he looks very unique and ridiculously friendly. He is a block head style lab real big, (105 lbs but lean)and has a big burly tail, not that ratty looking thing like some labs have...He also has massive paws....I get a lot of "ohh your dog is beautiful!" all the time so it made me wonder....thanks...

[caseymcq]

If you are considering studding your dog there would be some information that would be worthwhile to get that could influence that decision. Some health tests:

• Hips & Elbows
• Eyes
• EIC
• CNM

IMO, to have health questions answered could be the first sieve to pass in order to determine if the dog should be bred.

Simultaneously, here again IMO, it would be to answer the question of, "What the does dog bring to the breed?" Does the dog have traits beyond what have been determine by the health screenings that would make it a good candidate for breeding? These are all a matter of opinion and they can differ drastically from person to person.

[PikeBayCommanche]

I know that for at least my kennel a 105 pound lab is gonna be way to large for hunting purposes for me. Trying to get him back in the boat could be a major challenge. Also would tire out on long days of pheasant hunting. As a small breeder I prefer labs in the 75-50lb. range.

Also wonder if at that size some problems with hips and health could be a issue also.

Like Casey said people would need to see the pedigree.

How many titles are in the line?

Hip Score

Eyes

EIC

Those would be the factors that would need to be figured out.

[Farmboy1]

• Hips & Elbows
• Eyes
• EIC
• CNM

IMO, to have health questions answered could be the first sieve to pass in order to determine if the do should be bred.

I would have to agree with this. If you are serious, and willing to spend the few hundred dollars to have these certifications done, then talk to a few breeders. Someone may be interested.

Keep in mind however, that a pretty dog to the average person, may not be pretty to a hunter.

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

How many titles are in the line?

As importantly what has he done, if he isn't titled to at least MH or QAA Quiet honestly you won't get many calls.

Stud fee's for a MH or QAA dog are around $500

AFC 700-1000

FC/AFC $ 1000.00 and up

So what is a untitled dogs stud fee worth, couple hundred bucks hardly worth the effort, plus you'll get to breed to all the people that are to lazy or don't know any better to get there health clearences done, wich in turn end up being the $150 AKC labs you see in the paper.

Sorry to be so blunt but thats the facts.

[caseymcq]

As importantly what has he done, if he isn't titled to at least MH or QAA Quiet honestly you won't get many calls.

Stud fee's for a MH or QAA dog are around $500

AFC 700-1000

FC/AFC $ 1000.00 and up

So what is a untitled dogs stud fee worth, couple hundred bucks hardly worth the effort, plus you'll get to breed to all the people that are to lazy or don't know any better to get there health clearences done, wich in turn end up being the $150 AKC labs you see in the paper.

Sorry to be so blunt but thats the facts.

Seems to be more of an opinion. We bred our untitled female with an untitled male. Both had numerous titles, field and show, throughout their pedigree. The pups went for well over $150.

A lot of it can be what kind of dog you want to get out of the breeding. Titles mean less to me than the health certifications of the dog and the confirmation. I look for a lab with blockier head, the thick coat with the fine under coat. I have seen plenty of "titled" dogs that I wouldn't breed because they aren't, IMO , what a lab should be. Super skinny, pointy nose, hyper. Any lab can be taught to hunt with the propper training.

If a title is what a person would be looking for, then by all means, go with the dogs with the titles. That is definitely going to be a dog with the potential for that.

I might hunt a total of 10 - 20 days a year (if I'm lucky, that is a lot of hunting for me) with a dog. That leaves the other 345 - 355 days of the year that the dog is a pet and lives in my house. I want a calm, well behaved dog. I also want a dog that can hunt late October early November and can handle the water temps that time of year. That is where the confirmation comes in.

[grousehunter]

Different strokes for different folks. I am with Todd on this one. I prefer formance and trainability in my hunting dog over looks. I wouldn't even look at a litter without health clearances on the parents though. IMO titles show a lot more than the dogs owners being good trainers. No matter who the trainer is you need a great dog to be able to get a AFC or FC. I didn't know dogs were "taught to hunt"? My dog teaches me more about hunting than I could ever teach him..proves me wrong time and time again.

I agree with you though Casey that a lot people don't want or need such a high drive/strung dog that a MH/FC/AFC breeding will normally put out. My dog is out of a pretty good bredding and is one of the calmest house dogs I could ask for. In the field is a different story. I will say he has tried my patience a time or two with his high energy antics..but what dog hasn't.

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

Does the dog have traits beyond what have been determine by the health screenings that would make it a good candidate for breeding? These are all a matter of opinion and they can differ drastically from person to person

I missed that in your original post, but that about sums it up, I really don't care if the the dog is purdy or not, I'll take an ugly, lanky, pointy nosed , gay tailed dog that is trainable, runs straight, can mark, and can count to four over a good looking one every time.

The titles show me all of the traits mentioned above and alot more, without those titles we really have no idea how good the dog is or could be, in the end it really is a [PoorWordUsage] shoot whether you spend $100 or $5000 you never know but I do believe your odds go way up if buy out of proven parents.

I don't hunt a whole lot either but I do train 300 plus days a year and it sure is nice having dogs that enjoy it as much as I do, and they do live in the house and sleep on the bed

[Ufatz]

No. Good Grief man....look around you-there are Lab puppies coming from all directions all the time.

Should you breed some more "110 lb. Labradors....?"

No!

[gr8icefishinmind]

Quote:

Does the dog have traits beyond what have been determine by the health screenings that would make it a good candidate for breeding? These are all a matter of opinion and they can differ drastically from person to person

I missed that in your original post, but that about sums it up, I really don't care if the the dog is purdy or not, I'll take an ugly, lanky, pointy nosed , gay tailed dog that is trainable, runs straight, can mark, and can count to four over a good looking one every time.

The titles show me all of the traits mentioned above and alot more, without those titles we really have no idea how good the dog is or could be, in the end it really is a [PoorWordUsage] shoot whether you spend $100 or $5000 you never know but I do believe your odds go way up if buy out of proven parents.

I don't hunt a whole lot either but I do train 300 plus days a year and it sure is nice having dogs that enjoy it as much as I do, and they do live in the house and sleep on the bed

hey todd, you have an e-mail address? i'd like to pick your brain about some stuff about training if it is possible!! I like your techniques but would like to learn more!!

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

hey todd, you have an e-mail address? i'd like to pick your brain about some stuff about training if it is possible!! I like your techniques but would like to learn more!!

[email protected]

[caseymcq]

I'll take an ugly, lanky, pointy nosed , gay tailed dog that is trainable, runs straight, can mark, and can count to four over a good looking one every time.

I never realized a dog's tail was an indication of sexual preference I better go check my dogs, he spends way too much time sniffing other dogs' butts and "businesses".

My post probably came off in a way I really didn't mean to. I like all labs I am just partial to certain ones . It is all personal preference and what people want out of the dog. If somebody wants titles, they are probably going to get a "field bred" lab. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, IMO. Like I said, it is a matter of personal preference.

We put money down on a puppy from a breeder who goes more for confirmation. The price of the pup is a good chunk of change. There dogs are not titled, they get a pretty penny for them and they don't have any problems getting buyers for the puppies. We put a deposit down on a litter that isn't even been "consummated" yet. Why? Because their dogs are in that high of demand.

As far as dogs being "taught to hunt.": trained / taught it is pretty much semantics. I guess I should have spelled it out that a dog needs to be conditioned into certain desirable behaviors, heel, come, stay, etc., in order to have the dog function in a way conducive to the owners goals of achieving specified tasks with the dog, such as pointing, flushing and/or retrieving, while accompanying the hunter or hunters. I figured I would just keep it short with "taught to hunt" .

With labs, I am a firm believer that they all have to potential to hunt. Some are just a little more challenging to bring that out.

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

gay tailed dog

You know the ones that curl over the top of there back, pretty commen in alot of field lines, bodey has a half curl

Breeding for conformation first is fine if thats what you looking for, I regulary train with a guy that breeds more for conformation than field, they are really nice looking dogs that have plenty of drive they just don't seem to have the marking, lining, less watery than field breed dogs, same goes for his goldens. Putting a SH on one of these guys is a big deal and a MH is almost unheard of.

[JayinMN]

Well one great thing about labs is there is so much variation in the breed if you look around you will find one that fits whatever your criteria is.

[caseymcq]

.. Putting a SH on one of these guys is a big deal and a MH is almost unheard of.

I can't argue with you there... but I have seen a decent number of dogs with the CH on the front and the SH on the end. So it can and does happen.

I do have a question of what you mean by "less watery"? I don't understand what you mean with that one.

If it is a dog for titles... definitely go with those dogs with the MH's, AFC's, etc.

If it is a dog to hunt... that can be accomplished with any lab.

Better yet... mix in a few of those dogs that have the field traits with the dogs that have the tradditional lab characteristics and...

[grousehunter]

I would just get a chessie for your next dog if I was you guys. They are way better anyways!

[Todd Caswell]

Quote:

I do have a question of what you mean by "less water"?

Less watery (is that a word?)

The ones Ive trained with tend be a bit more land grabby and struggle through swimby and water force drills more so than primarliy field labs.FT and to alittle less extent HT dogs need to really like the water and in most cases equals a more honest dog in the water, if you end up with a dog that isn't crazy about water it can turn into a continual battle.

Here's an example of a big swim, cross wind blind we ran in training, helps to have a "Watery" dog.

[Todd Caswell]

I would just get a chessie for your next dog if I was you guys. They are way better anyways!

I don't know about that but I will give you credit at least your not a Golden GUY.

[caseymcq]

I was asking in all honesty. I didn't know what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

I am pretty sure watery is a word.

I guess I just haven't had an experience with having trouble getting my labs to stick to the water when I have wanted them to, so I had not discussed the topic much before now.

[Bryce]

I think you'd be amazed/surprised how tough it is to keep pooch in the water on the example above. From my reading this forum over the years, I'd guess maybe a half dozen dogs or so on here come up with that bird. Even less on a consistant basis.

[duckbuster]

Todd, where is the picture taken? I can't picture that from St. Cloud, is it from Rick's property?

By the way, did you run the Super Singles yesterday at BRG?

[Todd Caswell]

Wade,

Yah it was at ricks, I;m leaving in a few minutes to head down there and train today. No I did not make it to the SS yesterday.

[duckbuster]

Boy if you could run that with the wind blowing the opposite way so that the wind is pushing the dog to the shore. Also to have the dog take the cast off the point and into the wind would certainly make for an interesting set up.

When did Rick get back from Florida? Are you going to run any of the May trials coming up?

[Todd Caswell]

He got Back last week, He ran Bodey in the Open at Micheana had a nice first series and then boxed him around at the end of the land blind. But at least he got through the first series. I think Im going to run Hennipen skip a week and then run CMRC. How about you? Nice to have the dog home again, he's funny we got home he walked in the door drank a half bowl of water and then layed down on the couch, like he never left

[duckbuster]

Todd, Michiana has got some goofy trial grounds. I went down there a couple of years ago. Remember the earthquake with the epicenter in Louisville? That was the year we were down there, it shook our Super 8 hotel windows. Went across the street to IHOP for breakfast and the waitress told us what the shaking was from. Anyway, the trial grounds are on a deer hunting preserve. The 1st series Open test was right near a pile of deer carcasses. Talk about stink and that was in April. I can't imagine what it must smell like in the summer.

I won't be running anything until after the break, I won't have my dog back until the weekend of July 4th. I am going to Colorado to pick him up, run a double D/Q and come home. My first trial on our circuit will be up at Virginia. She likes him though, she likes him a lot so I'm pretty excited to get him back.

I will definitely see you at Hennepin, I am going to work a lot of the trials in May.

Talk to you later.