Cass Lake

[Gordie]

Elwood, Cass Lake is open to you and everyone else. It's very much a public resource, even by your #3 definition that you cite. You are not banned from the lake. Certain methods of harvest are legal there, others are not. It used to be tradition to shoot fish when you got them close to the boat to aid in their harvest. Why have gun yielding sportsmen been banned from our lakes? Oh wait, they haven't been. They are just required to harvest their fish by other means.

Aaron

It is not open to all. at least not spearfishermen and the last I looked they were as puplic as you.

[brmuskie]

Elwood - my argument still remains that being public land or public waters doesn't mean that you can always do what you want. You can go on Cass anytime you want - you just can't spear on Cass. You can't eat or drink in a courtroom - but it is still a public place. You can't bring guns into a police station - but it is still a public place and you can go there anytime you like - just not with a gun. The library is a public building - but you can't make noise in there. You can't drive a licensed 4 wheeler on I94 - but it is a public road. I realize that these are ridiculous comparisons to spearing on Cass but they illustrate a simple point that I am trying to make.

You are not prohibited from going there (it is public waters), you are simply not allowed to spear when you get there.

I know, I know..... I agree with you that it isn't necessarily right for some restrictions to be in place but that is a different argument that I am not interested in having on the internet. I am not debating the merit of the spearing ban - just wanted to point out that just because you can't spear there, doesn't make it any less public.

[merkman]

They are just required to harvest their fish by other means.

And so in lays the crux of the issue.

Just do it their way, during the seasons they cram down your throat, no mater what the science, logic, or real world examples show and there will be no problems.

It won't be long and northern pike will be a summer only catch and release only species just like the muskie, and we will be one step closer to making our public lakes private aquariums.

Just go with the flow and don't rock the boat... they know what is best for you.

The way they feel that they “own” Cass Lake, its residents, its businesses and all others shows this quite clear… they know what is best.

It works for the 100+ other lakes but there is no way it will work for the other 26.... cause they said so.

The sportsman has no choice at what fish they choose to harvest when using a spear.... cause they said so.

It is impossible to practice look and release.... cause they said so.

Spears kill fish, hooks don't.... cause they said so.

etc etc etc.

[B420]

Is it wrong to want 26+ lakes that won't be turned into hammer handle factories like so many MN lakes due to spearing?

[merkman]

Is it wrong to want 26+ lakes that won't be turned into hammer handle factories like so many MN lakes due to spearing?

Not at all, if darkhouse spearing actually turns lakes into hammer handle factories.

The science does not support that assumption, real life does not support that assumption and logic certainly does not support that assumption.

Do you really believe that 14 THOUSAND darkhouse spearers spearing the daylight hours of the 3 shortest daylight hour months of the year can kill more northern pike than the 1.4 MILLION anglers fishing 24 hours a day for most of the year?

The catch and release only method kills at least 5% (some studies say up to 30%) of all northern pike caught.

We all know that anglers do not practice 100% catch and release only.

There are only 1% of Minnesota anglers that are darkhouse spearers.

It is not the Darkhouse spearing method that is to blame for overharvest of fish. That lies directly on each and every responsible harvest or catch and release only sportsman out there.

You find me a spear or a hook that will harvest a fish on its own, and I will believe you that the sportsman has nothing to do with the over harvest of fish on all lakes in Minnesota.

If you could double the hook and line pressure on Cass Lake people would be overjoyed as they welcomed the change, ask for a small percent of the fishing population to responsibly enjoy their sport on Cass Lake and it has to go before the legislature..... Weird indeed.

While this is an interesting sidebar, it is not the reason that darkhouse spearing is banned on Cass Lake. Darkhouse spearing is banned on Cass Lake to protect muskies.

[Gordie]

Elwood - my argument still remains that being public land or public waters doesn't mean that you can always do what you want. You can go on Cass anytime you want - you just can't spear on Cass. You can't eat or drink in a courtroom - but it is still a public place. You can't bring guns into a police station - but it is still a public place and you can go there anytime you like - just not with a gun. The library is a public building - but you can't make noise in there. You can't drive a licensed 4 wheeler on I94 - but it is a public road. I realize that these are ridiculous comparisons to spearing on Cass but they illustrate a simple point that I am trying to make.

You are not prohibited from going there (it is public waters), you are simply not allowed to spear when you get there.

I know, I know..... I agree with you that it isn't necessarily right for some restrictions to be in place but that is a different argument that I am not interested in having on the internet. I am not debating the merit of the spearing ban - just wanted to point out that just because you can't spear there, doesn't make it any less public.

I understand your comparisons and I also understand that I can not spear Cass Lake but that doesnt mean I have to agree with it and that is why this debate is at hand because not everyone agrees on the same thing and that is my right to do so.I would like my rights as a spearfisherman to be able to spear Cass Lake along with 25 other Lakes that are banned from spearing.

I would not have a problem with slots on lakes or a reduction of limits.

The sole reason for the spearing ban puit on these lakes was to protect muskies not northern pike and it is already illegal to spear muskie what more protection do they need.

Also what I'm saying is that I dont agree with the use of the word public from the deffintion I have read.

[AWH]

Elwood, can you give me an example of something that you consider to be public by your definition? No matter what you pick, something is going to be prohibited there. So in your terms, there is no such thing as public lands or public water...anywhere. This is where the claim that Cass Lake is not public waters loses its credibility.

On a side note, it's refreshing to see someone that spears that isn't opposed to stricter regulations such as slots. It's too bad the MDAA refuses to realize their benefits

Aaron

[Gordie]

Arron I know that the word public will lose it credibility when it comes to this so it must be the definition that I'm not happy with "Open to ALL" guess it rubs me the wrong way..

[merkman]

On a side note, it's refreshing to see someone that spears that isn't opposed to stricter regulations such as slots. It's too bad the MDAA refuses to realize their benefits

Aaron

I am sure the MDAA would be a little more accepting of northern pike slots if the small changes could be made to the lower side of the slot so they didn't have the same impact as an outright ban on darkhouse spearing.

But as we have been told over and over changes to the northern pike slots are not possible, so I am sure the "compromise" will be to replace the outright ban on these 26 lakes with a northern pike slot that in the end will have virtually the same impact to the darkhouse spearer without the political impact to those who don't want darkhouse spearers on Cass Lake or the "other 25".

Once again I don't speak for the MDAA though.

[mainbutter]

The White House is a public building but you can't just walk in there whenever you want to.

And you certainly can't go squirrel hunting there.. lol.

[Gordie]

mainbutter that would be considered baiting..The nut hut like it is.

[Muskiefool]

Are any of the 26 considered Hammer Handle Lakes?.

[foulpole18]

Merkman. How many guys have to point out to you that slots don't ban you from spearing. If you choose not to spear lakes with slot, that's your choice. So why don't you drop the slots ban me from spearing complaint. Slots don't ban you, you choose not to. Big difference.

[AWH]

[Note from admin: Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.]

[B420]

If you were to listen to the President of the MDAA at the CLIFS meeting "Slots don't work anyway"!!!! Kinda funny all of my pike over 40" and the multiple 36-39" fish have come from slot lakes. Since the MDAA is against any slot limits, and refuses to work with the DNR, do you really think this group is looking out for the best interest of the fishery-I sure don't.

[Esox_Magnum]

Odd question but anyone know the % of strictly pike anglers?? I live on the top pike waters in my state and would be willing to bet less than 1% target pike. In fact our seasons were opened up year round to try and get people to catch and keep them to help reduce the population a little. We have a 3 fish daily limit, no slots and no spearing. You see a few kept here and there during the summer but rare to see someone out strictly targeting them. Most that fish them target them through the ice when they are easier to catch and the size is better. Even those guys are few and far between. Any given weekend out of 500+ anglers on the lakes willing to bet the farm not more than 1 or 2 are strictly pike fisherman.

Whats the numbers of strictly pike anglers in MN???

[merkman]

Are any of the 26 considered Hammer Handle Lakes?.

Not sure....

I know there are no lions around those lakes....

Must be the muskies keeping them away....

Seems logical I have never seen a lion near any of them.

[dcmusky]

If you were to listen to the President of the MDAA at the CLIFS meeting "Slots don't work anyway"!!!! Kinda funny all of my pike over 40" and the multiple 36-39" fish have come from slot lakes. Since the MDAA is against any slot limits, and refuses to work with the DNR, do you really think this group is looking out for the best interest of the fishery-I sure don't.

They quit working with the DNR becouse the science doesn't back them up. Being Public was brought up, why no public imput? Just go through the legislators, public imput must be for elitests. I could give a flying fart if you spear or eat pike, good for you but what about the future of pike fishing? I have a 9 year old that loves the catch & release her pike and what a better fish for kids. They bite readily (much to their demise) and a 30 th 38 inch pike is big to a 4 foot fisherkid. We need quallity pike to get kids interested in fishing. Stunted panfish and pike will never compeate with the nervana that is vidio games or the [PoorWordUsage] box with 24/7 cartoons. What have you guys done to educate your own on the differences of pike and muskies, and the out of staters that you introduced (again no public imput, wierd) to MN spearing. And for what, so you could go to North Dakota? And you call muskie fishermen selfish.

[merkman]

Whats the numbers of strictly pike anglers in MN??

Here are the harvest facts from the MnDNR

Sport Fish Harvested:

Panfish - 64 million pounds

Walleye - 35 million pounds

Northern Pike - 3.2 million pounds

The most caught fish:

1st: Panfish

2nd: Walleye

3rd: Northern

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/faq/mnfacts/fishing.html

[merkman]

Originally Posted By: B420

If you were to listen to the President of the MDAA at the CLIFS meeting "Slots don't work anyway"!!!! Kinda funny all of my pike over 40" and the multiple 36-39" fish have come from slot lakes. Since the MDAA is against any slot limits, and refuses to work with the DNR, do you really think this group is looking out for the best interest of the fishery-I sure don't.

They quit working with the DNR becouse the science doesn't back them up. Being Public was brought up, why no public imput? Just go through the legislators, public imput must be for elitests. I could give a flying fart if you spear or eat pike, good for you but what about the future of pike fishing? I have a 9 year old that loves the catch & release her pike and what a better fish for kids. They bite readily (much to their demise) and a 30 th 38 inch pike is big to a 4 foot fisherkid. We need quallity pike to get kids interested in fishing. Stunted panfish and pike will never compeate with the nervana that is vidio games or the [PoorWordUsage] box with 24/7 cartoons. What have you guys done to educate your own on the differences of pike and muskies, and the out of staters that you introduced (again no public imput, wierd) to MN spearing. And for what, so you could go to North Dakota? And you call muskie fishermen selfish.

We can get along on 100+ lakes in Minnesota.... is it really that hard to get along on the other 26?

Lord knows the entire northern pike fishery is decimated now, just like many predicted, now that non residents can darkhouse spear in Minnesota.

[dcmusky]

So is the 26 lakes you can't spear on like the "grass is greener on the other side syndrome"? All fishing is banned on Pleasant lake, oh no what should I do? Quick lets call someone in St. Paul! If you want pike on Cass grab some rods and go, or does your MDAA membership prevent you from doing that?

[merkman]

So is the 26 lakes you can't spear on like the "grass is greener on the other side syndrome"? All fishing is banned on Pleasant lake, oh no what should I do? Quick lets call someone in St. Paul! If you want pike on Cass grab some rods and go, or does your MDAA membership prevent you from doing that?

Great logic.... does that same logic apply to adding new Muskie waters?

If so 35% of acreage for 14% of the fishing population should be enough.

Or is that "different"?

[dcmusky]

So how would you feel if I just skipped the public imput for muskie stocking and whined to my legislator to get muskies stocked. You'd be POed right? It's not the right way to go about this and you guys know it. This is a slippery slope your sending our fisheries management down and it's not right. Public waters should = public imput. Or are you guys too good for that.

[merkman]

So how would you feel if I just skipped the public imput for muskie stocking and whined to my legislator to get muskies stocked. You'd be POed right? It's not the right way to go about this and you guys know it. This is a slippery slope your sending our fisheries management down and it's not right. Public waters should = public imput. Or are you guys too good for that.

That is your opinion and these arguments will do nothing to change the situation.

I do not believe in sportsmen supporting unjustified bans on fellow sportsmen.

You obviously do not feel the ban is unjustified.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

I think the best we will ever do is agree to disagree.

And I am OK with that.

You have successfully buried the points I have made previously in this thread and obviously you will criticize me if I copy and paste it one more time to bring it to the forefront. Since these discussions just spin out of control from here, we might as well take it down to crazy town right now.

[dcmusky]

Cool. I'm owt!