Ditch Closures and Rice County

[Dave S]

I just received this in my email from ATVAM today. I've seen the damage in Rice County and I'm surprised they're only going for an extra month and not a total ban.

IMO, where ethics and common sense are lacking, new laws/legislation thrive.

ATV drivers could soon have less time to zip up and down county ditches during the year.

Rice County commissioners propose extending the ban on driving county road right-of-ways by a month.

State law already prohibits ATVs from driving in ditches between April 1 and Aug. 1, but allows counties to amend that ban. The new ban would start March 1 under the ordinance Rice County is considering.

A violation would result in a $100 fine. It would not apply to ATVs used for agricultural work or used exclusively as transportation to and and from work on farms. It also would not apply to officials using ATVs as part of their duties.

County Highway Engineer Dennis Luebbe asked commissioners for the ban because it allows more nesting habitat to develop and reduces the county's maintenance costs.

"Whatever we can do to limit future costs from a maintenance perspective, I would be in support of," he said.

ATVs tear grooves in the ground while driving in ditches, and that ground is usually soft and wet well before the current ban begins. Commissioner Jeff Docken said the idea is to start the ban before the worst month for tearing up the ground gets under way.

"The more mud they seem to be able to turn up, the more encouraged they are to do it," said Commissioner Jake Gillen.

Rural Lonsdale resident Nancy Marth said she'd actually like a year-round ban. She's not as concerned about the maintenance savings as she is about the conservation aspects. Between plowing and development, birds have less undisturbed ground to make their nests. Still, she's happy to see this first step - regardless of the reasons commissioners want to support it.

"I'll take it any way I can get it," Marth

Rice County is not alone in this proposal. Assistant County Attorney Meredith Erickson said a number of counties have approved such ordinances but that most of them outlawed the use of ATVs in ditches altogether.

A public hearing on the proposed ordinance change will take place at 8:35 a.m. March 9, right after the commission meeting starts.

KEY ORDINANCE CHANGES

210.03 Prohibitions

Except as provided for in Minnesota Statute 84.928, Subdivision 1(e) and in Section 210.04 of this Ordinance, it shall be unlawful for any person to operate an All Terrain Vehicle in any County public road right-of-way from March 1 through Aug. 1 unless the vehicle is being used exclusively as transportation to and from work on agricultural lands.

210.04 Exemptions

210.04.01 This ordinance shall not apply to any agent or employee of of any road authority, law enforcement, or public safety agency, or any agent or employee of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources when performing or exercising official duties or powers.

210.04.02 Nothing in this ordinance shall prohibit the agricultural use of ATVs in rights-of-way, as defined in Minnesota Statute 84.92, Subd. 1d.

210.04.03 Nothing in this ordinance is intended to prohibit the crossing of a County Public Road Right of Way, which is otherwise allowed by Minnesota Statute 84.928, Subdivision 1a, (1) through (5)

210.05 Violations

210.05.01 For the first offense, the person shall be guilty of a petty misdemeanor and shall be punished by a fine of $100 plus applicable fees and surcharges.

210.05.02 For the second and subsequent offenses, the person shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished according to law.

[DUCKAHOLIC]

so they want more areas for nesting birds?? so what happens when the farmer comes by and cuts all the grass down??? and why do they get to ride in the ditches? i dont get why they get special treatment...

[Dave S]

You're missing the point Duck. One trip through Rice County and you'll see why they are pushing for this extra month. The ditches are in terrible shape. Many sections of the ditch along 21 going through Shieldsville have become nothing more than a mudding area.

This extra month has less to do with nesting habitat than it does to minimize rutting and erosion during one of the wettest times of the year. The nesting habitat was put in to appeal to the "environmentalist" crowd and to provide more leverage to initiate this closure. Ditches were never intended to become a mudding area. Nor were they ever intended for ATV use.

Use of these areas, especially in Rice County, is a privilege that will be taken away if people don't wake up.

[DUCKAHOLIC]

guess ive never been in rice county and paid any attention to the ditches... around here we ride on the roads and ditches alot ive never been stopped the dnr doesnt seem to care nor the police... but we dont rip the ditches up either

[Ryan_V]

so they want more areas for nesting birds?? so what happens when the farmer comes by and cuts all the grass down??? and why do they get to ride in the ditches? i dont get why they get special treatment...

I've always said, and it still holds true, that there are a completely different set of laws for farmers. Even heard a judge say that.

[Dave S]

This has nothing to do with the farmers.

If ATV riders wish to continue to ride in the ditches in the allotted time frame, it's time for the ATV riders to start taking responsibility for their own actions and the damage they cause.

[Ryan_V]

I respectfully disagree. If an atv with me on it can't ride the ditch, then an atv with a farmer and a bail of hay shouldn't be able to either. Farmers can do just as much damage as anyone else. I've seen some farmers strap a hay bale/chainsaw/pitchfork permanently to their machine, just so they are legal and can bypass the rules for the rest of us. Granted it's not many, but few will deny farmers have special laws they follow, that would get the rest of us a ticket, not just talking ATV's....

[Dave S]

Ryan,

with all due respect, take a look into the reg's and you'll see that with the proper registration, a farmer doesn't need to be in the ditch.

But again, this has nothing to do with farmers. It has more to do with the general ATV riding crowd and the damage caused by those riders that continue to tear up certain areas. Even if a farmer was in the ditch, it was going from point "A" to point "B". I have never seen a farmer with a bag of feed or a bail strapped to the back of his machine and say "Hey, this looks like a good mudding opportunity" and hit the mudholes several times prior to moving on. Overall, IMO farmers have a higher respect for the land than your average ATV rider.

But, for the 3rd time, this has nothing to do with farmers.

[no bait nate]

i agree, my house is on is on a county hwy north of shieldsville and my ditch gets run through every once and a while. most atv riders will take it up onto the shoulder when they get to my mowed lawn but there are always some that like to give it the beans when it's slick out. i understand it may be fun, as i own an atv myself and like to ride, but there has got to be some amount of respect here from riders or more laws should be in place to take care of the issues.

[BobT]

I agree with you LEP7MM but as a farmer and ATV rider I can sympathize with their concerns. As you've stated, this is really about protecting the ditches from excessive erosion and destruction. Based on what I experience on my own property I've never agreed with the "nesting habitat" argument but that's another discussion. The purpose of the ditch is to channel water, expand the view for safety, and provide some room to allow vehicles a place to "ditch" in an emergency with a lower chance of slamming into trees and such.

When we ATV riders do what we enjoy most, we can disrupt that function and so the township, county, or state is left with the cost to make repairs. This means that we are imposing a cost on the rest of society and is that fair? The occasional farmer riding in the ditch shouldn’t tear them up like recreational riders. I honestly find it hard to believe a farmer would strap on a bale of hay or a pitch fork so he could get around the law and pleasure ride the ditches. Not saying it would never be done but it does seem to be stretching the truth a little.

If I may, please permit me to share my "farmer's" perspective, even though I am only a part-time farmer. I bought and paid for all the land up to and including the road right-of-way but I am still assessed taxes for the entire parcel. I don’t know if my taxes are adjusted in any way to compensate but I suspect not. In my case I own 87 acres with a 1/4 mile stretch of township road and 1/2 mile stretch of county road along two borders. I also have a 1/2 mile stretch of railroad right-of-way paralleling the county road, which has now been converted into the Lake Wobegon Trail. If my math is correct I calculate that those right-of-ways consume a little over nine acres of my property. Additionally, woe to me if I damage a cattail so add the areas of my land that have a cattail on them and I pay taxes for 15-20 acres that I can’t do anything with. That’s 17-23% of my tax base. I think that if we are to be fair, shouldn't we be a little tolerant when a farmer mows his ditches or occasionally uses an ATV in a road ditch while working his farm? When a farmer mows his ditch it saves the township, county, and state the cost of doing it.

I must admit that I can’t complain too much though. Yes, the right-of-way thing sucks but that existed when I bought the property. Saying that I can’t do anything with the wetland areas isn’t entirely accurate either. I enjoy wildlife, I enjoy the open space around my home, and I am a hunter ergo these wetland areas provide me with pheasant, deer, and waterfowl hunting opportunities. It would sure make my farming go easier however if I didn’t have to work my way around all these areas. Additionally, I am a part-time farmer, my hobbies take advantage, and my land produces only part of my income. A full-time farmer that doesn't hunt or have time to enjoy the unused land would likely feel differently as he is forced to rent or buy more land to offset what he loses to road right-of-way or wetland.

Just food for thought.

[BobT]

I almost forgot. Yes, farmer's aren't automatically allowed in the ditches. We do have to obtain proper registration for our ATV. We also have to be actively engaged in farming activity at the time.

[Dave S]

Thanks for the input Bob.

As for Rice County, I know for a fact there are several cases where the property owners own the land to the center of the road. If this is the case where the damage has occured, then it's destruction of private property as well as trespassing.

Just more food for thought.

[Ryan_V]

I don't want this to get off of topic, so I'm just going to end by saying fair is fair. If I can't ride in a ditch, neither can a "farmer engaged in farming activities" ditches follow roads, they can use the roads like the rest of us when the restrictions are on. And if I can't ride the ditch, farmers should not be allowed to mow them with a tractor that weighs several times what a wheelers does. Laws should apply to everybody, there are just too many exceptions for farmers. Just like the kids with "farmers permits" at age 15, that drive to school every day.

Lets just let it go now!!! I understand your points, just wanted to make mine clear as well. I own 26 acres along a highway and a county road, so I'm affected as well. I know a few people in my position, that don't farm, but get the dual registration in thier machines so they can "get in on the loophole" which isn't right either. I follow the laws and respect land.

thanks for listening. ryan_v out!!

[BobT]

Both of these below that you mentioned aren't legal either way. The farmer's driving permit only allows the 15-year old to drive for farm reasons such as getting parts, picking up grain, hauling equipment, etc. The AG permit for ATVs only provides a "loophole" for farm purposes. If they are pleaure riding in those ditches, they are riding just as illegal as any of us.

Quote:

Just like the kids with "farmers permits" at age 15, that drive to school every day.

Quote:

I know a few people in my position, that don't farm, but get the dual registration in thier machines so they can "get in on the loophole" which isn't right either

Edit: I'd even be willing to support taking it a step further and say that when a person gets caught with an ATV in a ditch illegally and it has the AG permit, the fine should be stiffer because they tried to get away with something on a loophole. A 15-year old driver on a farm permit that gets caught after dark or pleasure driving should get fined a stiffer fine.

[Rippinlip]

I live in Rice county and I don't see the damage as much as it is described in here, it is probably there.

I think people have to be more responsible. I do not care if it is in the ditches, trails or on a gravel road, if a person or people are going beyond common sense we are going to loose certain rights.

We do alot of riding in Rice county, but I have also made sure we (our group) does our part not to give our ATV families a bad rep.

We do like muddying it up once in a while, but we find areas where it is allowable, ATV parks, private land of friends...etc.

We all can help each other out by doing the right thing, use your head people.

Atleast in Rice county we can ride publicly. The 7 county metro area is no riding unless its on private property or a trail system.

I do not want to have to trailer our machines out of the county to ride.

We like being able to ride around the county roads.

Mark

[Dave S]

Now that's what I like to hear Rippin. I used to ride down at Bauer's Pit back in the day when I had the DS650 and the V-Force.

It sure would be nice to have that open again. It wasn't all that uncommon to see 200+ people there on the weekend.

It was a great place to ride and kudos to the late Roy Bauer for letting people ride on his land. Unfortunately, the way it was handled was it's demise.

As far as damage to the dithces in Rice county, the worst that I've noticed is along 21, both in town and out by the airport and over towards Shieldsville. I don't recall the road, but there is another that runs north of the airport that had some major damage to it also.

[DUCKAHOLIC]

I don't want this to get off of topic, so I'm just going to end by saying fair is fair. If I can't ride in a ditch, neither can a "farmer engaged in farming activities" ditches follow roads, they can use the roads like the rest of us when the restrictions are on. And if I can't ride the ditch, farmers should not be allowed to mow them with a tractor that weighs several times what a wheelers does. Laws should apply to everybody, there are just too many exceptions for farmers. Just like the kids with "farmers permits" at age 15, that drive to school every day.

THANK YOU!!! i live in a rural big farming town and i work on a farm.. i have yet to see a farmer use the ditch on a atv for farm needs. if i cant ride my atv repectfully in the ditch the farmers shouldnt either. i have nothing agaisnt farmers i would just like the rules to be fair... people say that the ag licence doesnt get abused that is COMPLETELY wrong! i have many friends that live on farms that use the ag licence so they can ride all over in the ditches and when they get pulled over there like "oh im just checking the feilds" so many people do it its unreal. along with the driving while your 15, every farm kid in my school got there farmers permit and left a bag of feed in the box and drove all over whenever. they got pulled over and once again pulled the old "oh i just needed some stuff for the farm"...what a load IMO

Ryan your complety right- just wanted my opinion in there also im done on this thread

[BobT]

Who said the laws don't get abused? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there is a very good chance that each and every one of us abuses laws regularly. I wonder when the state of MN or better yet the snowmobilers and automobilers of Minnesota will stop by my place and offer to repair the damage they've done to my land and to clean up the trash they've left in the road ditches along my property. I pay the taxes for the snowmobile trail and roads that consumes about 9 acres of my land and in return I get to go out every spring to clean up the empty cans, glass, and plastic garbage along the road and destroyed vegetation from snowmobilers that can't seem to stay on the trail. A trail that was installed without my say. I'm willing to step up to the plate and not drive my ATV in the road ditches during the summer (I already abide by this). Are you ready to step up to the plate and offer to repair the damage done by your activities?

[Dave S]

Well said Bob.

This thread was posted to inform people of upcoming changes. If they choose not to heed any warnings, that's their choice. But be prepared to pay the consequences if you get caught.

as far as fair/not fair, keep in mind that in this part of the state, we're in the ag zone. In other words, farmers own 95% of the land. Go ahead and try to put the clamp down on a farmer and then see how many are willing to allow trails across their property.

We can cry fowl all we want, but the warning signs have been there for years.

[DUCKAHOLIC]

Who said the laws don't get abused? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there is a very good chance that each and every one of us abuses laws regularly.

-i do agree with that

I'm willing to step up to the plate and not drive my ATV in the road ditches during the summer (I already abide by this). Are you ready to step up to the plate and offer to repair the damage done by your activities?

-ofcorse, i will gladly come pick up, clean up, or repair any damage i have done or trash that i have left...seeing i refuse to liter and i stay out of the ditches when wet and will not rip them up.... i really wish other people would do the same so we can keep a good name for the riders out there

[Dave S]

Originally Posted By: BobT

Who said the laws don't get abused? I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there is a very good chance that each and every one of us abuses laws regularly.

-i do agree with that

I'm willing to step up to the plate and not drive my ATV in the road ditches during the summer (I already abide by this). Are you ready to step up to the plate and offer to repair the damage done by your activities?

-ofcorse, i will gladly come pick up, clean up, or repair any damage i have done or trash that i have left...seeing i refuse to liter and i stay out of the ditches when wet and will not rip them up.... i really wish other people would do the same so we can keep a good name for the riders out there

Exactly Duck.

One of the most frustrating things about the ATV safety training courses is an instructor can talk until they're blue in the face for 4 hours trying to teach the kids some ethics and safety only to go back home to a parent who refuses to abide by any laws or ethics. It feels like a waste of time.

On the flip side, I've had parents come up to me 60 miles from home and ask if I'm "That ATV Guy". It's parents/people like this that can make the difference. To recognize me after 4 years shows me that I've made a difference to atleast 1 family. Others have been repeat attendees.

I can understand the frustrations as well. We have limited areas to ride in Southern MN and the outlook isn't too bright to establish more. Land prices are astronomical, making it even harder to obtain a good piece of land.

Only if things would have gone slightly different 6-7 years ago, we almost had Bauer's Pit secured as a riding area. There were several parties interesed in purchasing the land and when we thought it was in our grasp, something else got in the way.

[DUCKAHOLIC]

yeah its a shame there isnt anyplaces to ride legally...im pretty fortunate growing up my neighbors were more than happy to let us ride 4wheeler on there land as long as we were outa there during hunting season and didnt go off the trails. now that ive gotten older i only use my atv for hunting and fishing on occasion i go for a right threw the woods and check out the old grounds. try and rememeber how i became what i am and how my summers were spent as a kid. i just hope other kids are as intrested in riding as much as i was when i was young. if there ever comes a time when i own some land and theres young kids that wanna ride on my land i will be more than willing to let them go at it and get them away from the video games and staying in the house.....

[IknoTracks]

idk about this whole deal, i farm my self, and honestly i have never had the need to go into ditches, but if i have to i will illegal or not i don't care nothing will stop me from feedin my cows and so on and so forth. law is law money is money. If someone did catch a farmer going into the ditchs and what not let the police access the situation and see if there was an absolute need to do it.

[rundrave]

i have never had the need to go into ditches, but if i have to i will illegal or not i don't care nothing will stop me from feedin my cows and so on and so forth.

please understand that most of the people here are refering to Minnesota laws. You and I are both from South Dakota and we are fortanate enough to have the privelege to ride on the roads here.

[Dave S]

Thanks for that clarification rundrave. The laws are a little more friendly in SD from what I've heard.

During the open ditch season, if there is an obstacle in the ditch that the rider cannot get around without entering the road right of way, they are allowed to enter the right of way and return to the ditch when conditions allow. This isn't the exact terminology, but it does give a little insight into what's permissible.