Dual Cone Transducers?

[desert_bulls]

Is it worth upgrading to the dual cone transducer? When your in the 9 degree cone, do you get better target separation? I was going to purchase a new machine this year, but I decided to get an atv instead. I can get a dual transducer for a great price. I mainly fish walleye and crappies. I fish a lot of different lakes that vary a lot in depth.

[Esox_Magnum]

I love my dual cone, but not sure about the effects on a Vex, I see no difference in cone setting for seperation that only gets better in zoom with the Super Fine Line on my Marcum. It will help you with interference though when fishing 2 units or when you want to see only 1 bait instead of both.

[PerchJerker]

I like having the dual cones, and I use the narrow beam A LOT --- deep water, steep breaks, when I want to see only the bait under my transducer, etc.

[NCLaker]

IMO it really depends on what you have now. If you have the 12 degree, and don't fish much deeper than 30FOW, then I would say it is not worth upgrading. If you have a 19 degree and don't fish deeper than 20 FOW then also not really worth upgrading.

I have a 9/19 and almost always use the 9 degree setting. Periodically I may use the 19 if I want to see if I mark anything further out from under the hole. I have the 12 degree on my other vex, and almost prefer it cause the ducer is a lot smaller.

[DTro]

prefer the wide beam when hole hopping to see if there any fish around the immediate area, and the narrow beam when I find the fish. It is nice to have both options, but not sure if it’s worth upgrading. Mostly it comes down to if you think you are missing out by not having it.

[fishwater]

I really wish a company would make an ice unit with a dual beam that you could run simultaneously - two concentric flasher rings maybe..

[P Floyd DSoM]

I got one of the Ice-45 by H-Bird last year. The dual cone was really nice when fishing next to a buddy of mine in my Yukon. He had a Vex and we never had any interference (even with the wide cone). With the narrow cone, I was able to just watch my bait not his too. The HB display is also much brighter than my old Vex FL-8. I sold my old Vex last winter to a guy while I was fishing the Red in MB...10 minutes later he iced a 30" greenback. Go figure.

[Ed Carlson]

I really wish a company would make an ice unit with a dual beam that you could run simultaneously - two concentric flasher rings maybe..

Not in a flasher at present, but the Vexilar EDGE III is capable of this if one wished it.

[bigbad401]

I really like my ICE35 with the dual cone transducer. I usually fish in 30ft depths and the narrow beam is so nice to find out what is exactly underneath me. I will switch back and forth from wide beam to see anything around in the area then back to narrow beam. It is a very nice feature.

[Ed Carlson]

Is it worth upgrading to the dual cone transducer? When your in the 9 degree cone, do you get better target separation? I was going to purchase a new machine this year, but I decided to get an atv instead. I can get a dual transducer for a great price. I mainly fish walleye and crappies. I fish a lot of different lakes that vary a lot in depth.

Choosing A Transducer Beam Angle

diagram showing transducer cone angle Beam angle has a large effect on the performance of your depth finder. There is more to it than simply area of coverage. Most of our FL-8se and FL-12 units are sold with a wide beam, 19 degree, transducer. There are several reasons for this, but it does not mean that this angle is the best for you. Most fisherman, and the stores they buy from, believe that wider is better. If you have more area of coverage then you should be able to see more fish, right? The answer is a definite maybe.

The correct beam angle to use depends entirely on what you are trying to see with your sonar. If you are fishing for suspended Crappies then you probably would be very pleased with the performance of the wide beam. However, if you were going after Walleye that are hanging right on the bottom along a steep drop-off you may be disappointed. Here's why;

DEAD ZONE - Dead Zone is the area within the transducers cone of sound that is blind to you. The wider the beam angle the greater the possible dead zone. The sonar will mark bottom as the nearest distance it sees. If you are fishing over a slope it may see the high side of the slope, at the edge of the cone, and mark that as bottom. The fish that are hanging on the bottom in the center of the cone will be invisible to you because they are actually within the bottom signal on your depth finder. A narrower beam angle will reduce this effect.

POWER - Your depth finder puts out a constant amount of power. It does not matter where you have the gain level set. Gain simply controls how much you amplify the signal that is bounced off of the bottom. Therefore, a narrow beam transducer will appear to be much more powerful than a wide beam transducer. This is because you are putting that same amount of power into a smaller area. This can be an advantage if you are fishing in deep water or a detriment if you are fishing shallow. A narrow beam transducer can be overpowering in shallow water. Switching to Low Power (LP), or the use of an S-Cable on an FL-8, will solve this problem, though.

This chart shows the difference in area of coverage between the 9, 12 and the 19 degree transducers. It is meant to give you a rough idea of what the diameter of the circle, in feet, on the bottom you are seeing at a specific depth. You must keep in mind that these are transducer specifications and, unless you have your gain set at the maximum level, you will actually be looking at a smaller area. This brings up another interesting point. Your gain control acts much like a variable cone angle control. The drawback is that when you turn your gain up high everything in the middle of the cone gets blown up to the point where you can't see what's on the edge anyway.

DEPTH 9° 12° 19°

Area of Coverage

10' 1.6 2.2 3.4

20' 3.2 4.3 6.7

30' 4.7 6.3 10.0

40' 6.3 8.4 13.4

50' 7.9 10.6 16.7

60' 9.4 12.6 20.0

70' 11.0 14.7 23.4

80' 12.6 16.8 26.8

90' 14.2 20.0 30.1

100' 15.7 21.0 33.5

120' 18.9 25.2 40.2

150' 23.6 31.5 50.2

ACTUAL vs. SPECIFIED CONE ANGLE

Diagram showing true shape of transducer cone as most people picture the cone of sound to be triangle shaped. This is true only for the specified cone angle. The actual cone of sound is shaped much like the drawing. As you can see there is a lot of area outside of the specified cone. You may or may not be able to see a target in this area. It depends on how well the target reflects the signal back to the depth finder. Good fisherman understand this and can actually identify schools of fish that are way off to the side of them. They look at the depth finder in the area beyond the bottom. If this area is normally clear, but suddenly a group signal appear, then its a good bet that there is something out there. Also, notice the side lobes of the actual cone of sound. This area is generally considered undesirable and a good transducer has minimal side lobes.

Choosing the correct beam angle is a difficult decision. That is why we have dual beam transducers. These have both the 9 and the 19 degree cones in one transducer. There is a switch box built into the cord so that you can switch between the angles. This is a great transducer for the fisherman who covering a wide range of depths and fishing for multiple species.

(Courtesy of Vexilar Facts and tips)

[fiskyknut]

Originally Posted By: fishwater

I really wish a company would make an ice unit with a dual beam that you could run simultaneously - two concentric flasher rings maybe..

Not in a flasher at present, but the Vexilar EDGE III is capable of this if one wished it.

FYI.. The Edge units run 2 seperate transducers at the same time, not a single dual beam.

[DTro]

I'm curious as to how a narrow beam would be overpowered in a shallow area? I could see where the narrow beam itself would be an issue, just because of the area covered, but why is too much power bad?

[Ed Carlson]

FYI.. The Edge units run 2 seperate transducers at the same time, not a single dual beam.

Yes as you have a wide angle 38° cone and a narrow 10° cone running at the same time.

With the Edge III, you can overlap the two cones on the same display for easy comparison. As in two beams to form two seperate trancducers forming 2 images on 2 sides of the display screen, or 1 image overlapped 2 seperate beams on one screen for spontanious comparison.

[fiskyknut]

Uh ya, but it runs 2 different transducers not 1 eh!! fishwater was hoping for a single 'ducer/unit with the ability to have both wide and narrow thru a single 'ducer.

DTRO, Edges run the 2 'ducers at way differing frequency, no prob at all, 107 for 1 and 400 for the other.

[Ed Carlson]

Correct, but to achieve that desired function and/or effect with what options that are currently available today that was why I mentioned it. Alternative capabilities and options due to the fact is not currently available in a flasher. If one wished, it could be accomplished with the EDGE III.

[Ed Carlson]

I'm curious as to how a narrow beam would be overpowered in a shallow area? I could see where the narrow beam itself would be an issue, just because of the area covered, but why is too much power bad?

It mostly is a matter of "Clutter Control", bug farts and tiny suspended particulates get greatly highlighted and tuning may at times get touchy in shallow water on narrow beam in full power mode. Highly dependent on condition, not always a concern but it can be so that is why they touched on it. By recalibrating the gain in the LP mode you have a wider range of low end gain tuning to deal with it.

Does that help?

[DTro]

So if I understand correctly, in some cases with a narrow beam, even at the lowest gain setting, you are getting too much clutter?

If so, then that makes sense.

Thanks

[fiskyknut]

LOL, too funny, I spose it depends on how you interpret fishwaters wishes maybe. Be fun riggin up those 2 big Edge transducers to sit/ride right in the ice hole!! Not sure how the Edge's work and/or hold up in the brrrrr cold but they are sure waaaay sweet in the boat.

Maybe easier and cheaper to run 2 seperate units altogether then, but then ya got 2 heads and power supply ect. But hey why not.... another option.. An Hbird 35 set on 9 degree running 455khz sitting next to a VX1 with the 20 degree 'ducer runnin 200khz.

An option availiable today in flashers, you'd need 2 though!!!

[Ed Carlson]

So if I understand correctly, in some cases with a narrow beam, even at the lowest gain setting, you are getting too much clutter?

If so, then that makes sense.

Thanks

Possibly, very case by case specific really, in LP mode the density of the particulate clutter would have to be very extreme to make it un-tunable at the lowest setting in the LP mode, never seen that situation myself yet? I find the duel beam very handy no matter what to get refined target separation and delineation in shallow water or relatively deep waters.

I fish primarily what most would consider to be shallow waters, 20 feet or less, on some occasions 40 foot range. It is very rare I fish extremely deep so others may have more useful feedback on that than I.

[Esox_Magnum]

Ok so a Vex in LP mode (200 watts?? ) will see better in say 8' of weedy water than a 2500 watt unit in narrow beam?

[Ed Carlson]

The LP mode does reduce output power approximately 50%, this will provide for a wider range of gain control that helps to efficiently fine tune out clutter while controlling the balloon effect of the beam. For me the LP mode has proven very effective in shallow water in doing the job it is designed to do.

Anyhow, back to desert_bulls original inquiry.

In my opinion, yes, if you can pick up a duel beam ducer reasonable, and it is in good working condition...why not, it should prove useful in many situations.