Toyota recall

[Tom7227]

I have seen the stories on line and am wondering about the runaway cars. Couldn't you simply put the thing in neutral and stop it with the brakes? Obviously the ones who crashed were trying to use the brakes and overheated the system causing it to fail. Throw it into neutral and use the brakes. If the engine blows up because of excessive rpm's who cares?

Or am I missing something?

[deadeye]

I have had the throttle stick before (old carbuerated chevy) and I just put it in neutral and then shut it off. I am more than willing to sacrifice the motor to not crash. Thats what a rev limiter is for.

Im pretty sure that it could be done in a toyota (I tried it in my mothers solara just to be sure). People get freaked out though and it doesnt cross their minds. I guess it goes to show quick thinking isn't something everyone is blessed with.

Its still a bad deal though. Not something that should happen, regardless. Im not 100% convinced that its just the floormats, but i could easily see it happen (im still not hot about drive by wire).

If people took 5 minutes once a week just to give the car a once over it could be avoided. I have had people tell me their throttle was not right to find the floor mat was bunched up underneath the pedal. If it was the other way around it would be a bigger issue.

I also heard that they did a actual recall for Tundras too. Some kind of frame rust issue. Kind of a bummer that they had those happen all at once like that but its still pretty minimal in numbers compared to other manufacturers.

[crappiebuster]

I heard the video tape and the person that couldnt figure out how to put it in neutral sounded like an "illegal alien". Ive had this happen many times in cars simply pop it into neutral and shut it off. Drove a 1961 studebaker when i turned 16 and it happened even being 16 I knew enough to do that. Poor drivers and poor common sense in this situation.

Toyotas do kinda have closer than normal pedal spacing. Try driving a corolla in size 12 mickey mouse boots. Its dangerous. lol

[Phred52]

crappiebuster, I started with an ol' '58 Chevy when I turned 16, same problem, same solution.....Neutral, turn off the ignition, fix problem, start engine and go. I'd bet that that driver got a "A" on the test for "Dialing a cel phone with your car out of control" though! From the sound of the audio, it sounded like the driver wanted the 911 operator to make a 'service call!' Too bad it happened, a little more common sense wouldn't have hurt AT ALL. Phred52

[Jeremy airjer W]

I'm not saying there isn't a problem that needs to be dealt with!

There has to be a little common sense that says this is a mechanical device built by humans that can develop any number of situations that can be solved with a little reasoning/common sense. Some people can reason, some people can panic. Panic will get you no where!

You can't over rev a new car. The rev limiters won't allow it. Shifting the car into neutral, slowly applying the emergency brake, and pulling off the road at the first sign the car was accelerating out of control and braking was not helping would be reasonable wouldn't it? Heck, turning the car off would be reasonable!

As far as getting people to take a look at there car once a week? Good luck on that one! You would be amazed at the number of vehicles that come in this time of year with all four tires at 10 - 20 psi or less. You would be amazed at the amount of garbage the front floor of a car can handle and the driver somehow is still able to drive. I have had cars that had so much smoke built up on all the windows that you vision was literally blurred as you looked out. I have seen cars that can not have any occupants besides the driver because they are completely filled with garbage (not personal items, stuff for work, packed for moving, GARBAGE).

There have been plenty of times that I have broken in brakes and had all kinds of stuff come flying out from under the seats. The worst was an old van with bench seat that a 12 pack came flying to the front and nailed the gas pedal. That was an interesting test drive!

Is there a problem, absolutely! Is it the floor mat, probably not. Is it some overlooked engineering or programing, more than likely. Is there some possibility for driver error, definitely possible.

[Big Buck Buster]

There have been plenty of times that I have broken in breaks and had all kinds of stuff come flying out from under the seats. The worst was an old van with bench seat that a 12 pack came flying to the front and nailed the gas pedal. That was an interesting test drive!

I second this theory. I have had many vehicles with electric seat controls fail because of all the trash/stuff that was stuffed under the seat. Moving the seat back and forth broke the wires for the control.

Had a customer chew me out one time because all of his trash got thrown off of the back seat when I was road testing there vehicle for a "brake problem". Found nothing wrong with the brakes, and cleaned the back seat off at the same time.

[deadeye]

LOL. I guess Im kind of fussy about my car/truck. I cant understand wanting to drive around with all that stuff in there. I can't even imagine picking up a girl with a car thats trashed like that. Not a chance in the world. Hey hows it going? want a ride? oh, let me get the leaf blower out and clear a spot for you? lmfao!

Im sorry that just strikes me funny.

Yeah there has to be something going on with them for there to be that many problems with it. Like said above a drop of common sense would easily prevent the whole situation from getting out of control though.

[CJH]

From everything I have heard, the Govt Agency thinks its a problem of the programming of the ECU (cars computer). I think some kind of weird deal where it locks systems somehow, like you can't turn off the engine. I thought about shifting it in neutral as well, not sure if that hasn't been done due to panic, of if it can't/won't/doesn't matter.

I know one of the first people that got killed was an experienced California Highway Patrolmen and his family in a Lexus. I would think that somebody with his amount of training and experience would have tried everything possible, including putting it in neutral. He had his wits about him, as they called 911 to have the intersections cleared ahead of them, but lost control at some point and none of them made it.

Toyota officially is stating its the floormats and there is nothing wrong with the ECU, however the evidence is mounting against that. They are also going to redesign the gas pedal so it doesn't get stuck by the floor mat, and install them in a few months, I believe. However by then, we will hopefully know what the real cause is. The way accidents/deaths are piling up, its looking like its going to be worse than the Ford SUV rollover issue from the 90's. I hope they figure it out sooner, rather than later for everybody's sake!!

[jltimm]

Ford SUV rollover issue from the 90's

Was this the one from the Bronco 2's? They blamed it on the Firesone tires? Yet when they quit making the Bronco 2 and came out with the Exploder a few years later they had widened the wheelbase.

[CJH]

I think it was the original Explorer. It was a combination of the wheelbase being to short making them tippy and the Firestone tires detreading at an irregularly high rate.

That almost killed Ford.

[LMITOUT]

Isn't this the biggest recall of Toyota's ever? I seem to recall it is indeed due to the floor mat.

I still don't understand why people can't put the car in neutral when this happens, but....oh never mind.

[Black_Bay]

Panic will get you no where!

[deadeye]

There is still enough vacuum built up for one good stop when the engine is killed. I would rather have a firm brake pedal than a car thats out of control.

The steering won't be a factor till the car is stopped. Most of the cars now have a speed sensitive power steering system and when your moving say past 15 mph there is very little assist. Again, I would rather deal with that when stopped than be accelerating out of control.

Its just people not being able to think on their feet (so to speak). There should still not be a problem like that regardless, but common sense should prevail in bad situation like that...

[Jeremy airjer W]

Agreed, there is enough vacuum stored for 2 to 3 pumps. If your trying to slow down in a hurry your foot will already be pushing down on the pedal.

The lexus in question may be a complete "by wire" car. I would have to do some checking to make sure but if it is than braking and shifting have no mechanical linkage. It is all up to the vehicles programing to decide if it wants to speed up, slow down, or shift gears. I think this might be a big part of the problem but like I said I am not 100% sure that is is the way the car is set up.

[deadeye]

Oh, all by wire huh? I still just don't like that very much. I have a had time with giving electronics that much responsibility. I like my chances of mechanical failure vs electrical failure much better.

[Mr.Seaguar]

The car that is doing this has no key. Its a push button start so there is no way to turn the key off while in drive UNLESS you know that you push the start button 3 times and the car turns off. This information wasnt in the owners manual either. It is now, what a shock. At least thats what I read. The motor on these has something like 350 hp. Can you imagine trying to stop that thing only with brakes while at top RPM? Never happen. Thats why they start on fire. I had a junker among junkers where the accdelerator got caught on the floor mat, I had to reach down there and rip the floormat out by hand. It was an old Chevy van with hard floor mats. The mat caught in a hole in the floorboards, lol.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Wouldn't you think that you would be pushing the "start button" repeatedly if you where in that situation?

[deadeye]

No doubt. I would be pushing buttons, pulling levers and probably ripping wires out from under the dash.

Depending on how fast I was going and where I was at, I would be inclined to rip the ebrake and take my chances with a spin out. Not really ideal but if the thing won't shut off what can you do?