Fish house windows and door freezing up big time-Need Help

[T.O.W]

So I have this really nice fish house. Probably spent more on it than my Grandparents spent on their first house. I love it to pieces, but the only issue I have is the windows and door build up crazy amounts of ice on them. Not so much the glass itself but the frames. Literally a 1/2 inch of ice over the metal frame. They freeze up so bad I cannot open the windows and my door and handle freeze so bad I cannot get out. Obviously the colder it is out the quicker and worse it is. Really bad over night when it's the coldest and usually melts off by mid afternoon leaking all over the floor. I need to find a solution to this before the lakes are hard.

The house has a vented forced air heater.

Is this just a moisture/ventilation issue or cheap windows and door?

[crappiekid]

Vented heater is good and helps. I know the Vinyl windows do not freeze up. I metal thermo payne in my last house and they froze like you describe. I have the same issue with my door. MY spring also freezes up and the door wont stay shut. I have had to use a bungy cord to my oven to hold door shut on the way home on some trips! Obviously when you freeze up you have a leak around your door frame as well.?

[sx2]

I keep both my windows open about an 1" to a 1.5" and it seams to help.

[beer batter]

The freezing around the door is due to cold air meeting warm, condensation forms, freezes. I have similar problems, and it just comes down to better insullation around the door. I tried a couple different types of molding around the door, and it did help. This past summer/fall I added some better garage door style insulation to see if that helps even more.

[BobT]

Quote:

Literally a 1/2 inch of ice over the metal frame.

I think you've answered your question right there. Metal is a good conductor. Not only does it conduct electricity well but also temperature. The metal is cold and this allows water vaport in the heated area to condense.

[gunmunky]

I've never had a permanent but I'm wondering if a refrigerator seal would work for you around the door? Just a thought.

[dirtking]

cold air sneaks in above my door and mixes with the warm air and condenses. the water drips down the door and freezes on the door frame on the bottom - I've found that a couple times a day i hit it with a window scraper like you would use on your car - that works pretty well

[Finlander]

Try a 12v fan to circulate the air and see if that helps.

[T.O.W]

It seems like the issue may be the metal frames. I wonder if these metal frames are hollow as in no insulation injected into the frame? I wonder if a guy would be able to drill holes in the window frame and inject spray foam to provide the added insulation cutting down on the temperature change. Then plug the drilled hole with a little rubber insert. Has anyone ever tried this or had this issue with a Lodge fishhouse?

[RebelSS]

My humble opinion is air leak=condensation freeze. Regular Houses with steel entry doors and aluminum screens don't experience this problem..you shouldn't either. A poor seal combined with the heat and pressure in a shack forces warm air to be drawn out and condense on the metal frame, which is just the medium for the vapor to condense on. An airtight rubber seal with more insulation around the frames to keep the air from migrating should help.How? I don't know..maybe a knowledgable home builder or "door person" could help ya out with some good seals.I also spray my seals (truck too) with pure silicone..ice won't stick to that. Good luck!!!

[RebelSS]

PS: on my earlier quote: If your frames around the door and window are hollow,ie not solid, that's a culprit too. Airs a poor insulator. Forgot to ask if you have a "bathroom" style fan to vent out moisture...this will help A LOT! People don't realize the amount of moisture we give off...I"m sure you've seen it running down the walls in a portable. Yours is being drawn out to collect on your frames. Be interested to hear from you if you solve this problem. Good luck.

[T.O.W]

Good suggestions RebelSS, I like this theory of the moisture being caused by warm air hitting cold air in my window and door frames. I also will get a can of silicon to put on the door seal to keep the ice off. I would hate to put a hole in the roof for a vent or can you put in some kind of side vent? I just wouldn't want that to be the next thing that builds up a thick layer of ice. Any window or door guys out there that would know if injecting foam into a frame would fix this and how the best way to go about it would be?

[RebelSS]

Injecting foam (one brand is "Great Stuff")is a pain in the butt. Too much can warp your frame by over-expansion; and making sure you're getting it inthe right places is also a pain. You might try the stick-on closed cell foam stuck on the frames inside to insulate; that's the gray weatherstrip stuff for doors, sold in many widths. Wouldn't be real pretty, tho. I guess I'd try what some of our members have mentioned: crack a window a bit for the moisture problem, and try a small fan to move the air.Number one thing is get SOME BETTER SEALS!Put a dollar bill in the door when it's closed..it shouldn't pull out easy anywhere. Seals should be TIGHT! Isn't there a joke about that?!

[T.O.W]

Here are the pictures of my frustration.

[T.O.W]

Posted a couple of pictures of how icy the windows get.

Looking at the pictures again I don't think I will be able to fix the whole problem by injecting foam insulation into the frames. Wonder if I should look at coating the metal with something?

[RebelSS]

That's on the inside?!

[T.O.W]

It is! I know, it's crazy. I could scrap enough off to chill my "pop" cooler.

[RebelSS]

Wow! You weren't kidding!! Your metal frames are obviously transmitting the cold inside. Doesn't appear to be a "sandwich" type frame, no insulating between halves. I really don't have a clue. I've never seen it that bad. (Sorry!)I guess circulating plent of warm air will help evaporate that moisture, and keep the metal warm enough so that ice can't freeze on it. That's my best shot...

[MuleShack]

That ice is after you covered your windows over night? right? Or do you leave yours out on the lake with the heater on low?

I have the same issue, but I put curtains over the windows at night and when I pull them off in the morning the window is totally frosted. Generally It melts off in an hour or two and I just wipe the water up with a towel. I dont normally have an issue with frosting up when the windows are not covered. I run the heat at about 70 degrees in mine.

I dont have an issue with the door at all, with the exception of Red Lake once where I had set up opposite of the wind and then it turned around and blew right at the door and was way below zero. Then I started getting frost around the door latch due to the wind blowing directly at the door.

My fix this year is to get some window covers made at canvas craft from the same material they used for their insulated flip houses. I am going to use snaps to snap the insulated cover over the window over night to keep the cold out and then pull off in the morning. It may be tight enough to keep the moisture away from the window as well so it wont frost up.

Again, crack the window a few times during the day to let some of the moisture out of the house.

also always keep a portable torch with you in the house incase the door freezes up or the winches wont turn or if you need to heat your propane tanks.

I have a 20' lodge --07 model year.

[T.O.W]

It is after a night but with nothing covering the window, not even a curtain. I don't leave it out on the lake but when I'm in it the temp is set at about 65-72. I like the portable torch idea for when the door freezes. At least I'm not alone with my icy windows in the Lodge. I'm curious to see if your canvas covers have the effect your looking for.

[meatfish]

I would replace the windows,your window issue looks like it is from the seal on the glass,the problem with alot of the fish house windows is they are for campers and motor homes,not a good fit for a fish house and weather seal.You will soon have issues with moisture damage to your house.If you do not want to do that(adding a storm will help) see if you can get the trim ring off and fill the cavity with foam,and placing a computer fan above each window will help some.Also if you put a vent on each wall of the house(I like the flap style)That will vent on the down wind side of the house.For the door I would get one of those door seal kits from a big box store,they have an alum trim piece with a foam seal,they will hold up way better than the foam tape style seals.You will also need a good seal on the threshold.

I have seen some brand new small windows on an auction site that no one has bid on yet,they may just fit.I do not think forum policy will allow me to post it here.

If I were you,I would send those pics to the manufacture and see what they say.Some one may have forgotten to insulate the window cavity.

[RebelSS]

T.O.W. So...did ya decide what to do yet? I think Meatfish also summed it up 'bout those window frames. I betcha they're hollow. Guess where the vapor drips down into...:-).Good luck to ya!!! Maybe trade in time?

[MuleShack]

just to give you a ball park, I had called a place this spring to inquire about thermal double pane windows that would fit in the same holes as my current windows in the lodge. They wanted $600 a piece...way too much money.

I may pull my windows out and make sure there is insulation and then caulk inside the window to prevent the water from running inside. Although now it sits on the aluminum sash and runs down the wall now when it melts.

I just ordered my insulated covers today for 3 windows and the back utility door and its about $400 for everything installed.

[T.O.W]

With all the great ideas provided I will try the below at different stages to see which one or combo works the best and will be the least intrusive or expensive. If all fails and I still have the moisture problem I guess I would instal new windows and get ride of these RV style. It will be late ice or even the next years ice before I can put these into action though. Uncle Sam has me winning the hearts and minds of people that don't even ice fish - no easy task.

1. Remove window and door frames and fill any gaps with window version of great stuff spray foam. Inject around frames if needed.

2. Install a fan or two.

3. Install a vent for reduction of moisture in house.

4. Coat the door seal with silicon.

5. Carry a handheld torch if the door hardware freezes.

6. Look at seals and put better one's on if needed. Use the dollar bill trick for the door.

7. Open the windows slightly if not already frozen.

8. I have also sent the above pictures to the manufacturer to see if they will do anything about it or have some easy fixes. No response yet. Only one week since I e-mailed them.

Now the downside- if any of this works I will have to buy ice for the mixed drinks instead of scrapping it off my windows.

I will post any results. Thanks all!

[T.O.W]

WOW, that is pricy for a window. You could put in a bay window for that. I'm curious to see if your insulated covers work. I might have to add that to my list of options.