How do you keep up?

[MNpurple]

95% of the time I am very pleased with how my 2.5 year old lab hunts pheasants, but the part that has me frustrated is when she comes across a hot track of a bird that is either moving or running from us. She hits that track and she just goes with it until she flushes the bird that is running (many times thi is with the wind aat her back so I know she is trailing, not just winding). Sometimes I can keep up with her sometimes not before the bird flushes. I can get her to woah and wait for me, but the bird certainly isnt waiting for us and many times the bird is gone before we can get back to it. When your dogs are on a hot track like this do you do something to slow them down, or is it just time to get on the horse and go with them?

[fivebucks]

I bring the dog back to me, with a nick if I have too but most of the time a beep from my e-collar is all it takes. Most of the time I figure the bird will hold up once he hits good cover or an edge. I'm getting too old to run after my dog now adays. I also don't like to blow past good cover that fast.

[Leaddog]

See the thread "Teaching an old dog new tricks"

[APCfishing]

IME if you want a shot at that running rooster you need to stay with the dog.

[fishroger]

Hey purple. I have your dogs brother. You got her from bushwacker in sauk centre? That trait seems to be a common thread . My dog willy gets on a scent and hes like a heat seeking missle. It was a little frustrating because I couldnt keep up with him. I had gun dog training with him this may and he improved 100%. He got conditioned with the ecollar so I had more controll. Now if he doesnt stay with the program I will give him a nick. It usually only takes one nick and then he stays closer. Hes more experienced and mature and definitrly knows what his job is now.

[jparrucci]

There is a gray area here as the above poster said, if you want that running rooster, you better be wearing your Air Jordans. If you are intent on keeping your dog in range, as other stated, a beeper collar or a LIGHT nick is all it takes for my dog to get the hint to slow down. Obviously a very well trained down will listen to voice or whistle commands. I try to be as silent as possible when hunting alone or with a small group. When its just myself and the dog, I'm high-stepping to keep up with him, and doing so usually rewards me with a bird. The roosters on public land that get hunted frequently will run run run. Past you, around you, wherever. Rarely do they sit still on public land, only when cornered or trapped. If you have enough guys and can actually work the bird in a direction, it is another story.

[Leaddog]

That's right, control the dog all you want it won't stop or even slow down that rooster. If you want a shot you have to get up there, have someone posted or just admire the pretty colors as he flies away laughing a cackle.

You have to stealthily out maneuver the roosters!

Think its best to follow the dog then circle back for any sitting tight.

Good luck, be safe.

[Northsider #13]

The first year and a half I trained/hunted my lab at a hunting preserve. At the preserve you can shoot hens, chukar's, etc. So the next year at 2 I took her to Iowa. She ran like a rocket at every bird that flushed, hen, quail, hun, you name it. I'm no expert, but what I did was to get an E-collar. I worked with her and used two commands "Too Far" and NO. When I said NO I would give her a good tick. She learned that when I would say too far, she needed to stop and look at me. I could then say stay until I got up to where I would release her.

It worked very well. The next summer my wife, dog and I left the cabin for a walk. I sent the dog into the woods and then down the road. I told my wife to say "To Far" when the dog was out quite a ways. The dog stopped on a dime and came running back to her. She needs the collar opening day morning, and not again the rest of the year. She is 10 now and has arthritis bad in her rear knee joints. Can barely walk now. It won't be long befor she goes to pheasant heaven. Very tough time for us. I'm retiring on 12/18/09 and will be going through the puppy training again in spring. But I'll have plenty of time.

Good Luck!

[riverview]

I train my labs to sit on whistle but if you keep stopping them 9 times out of 10 the rooster is gone. Now my female will stop and look at me like she is telling me to keep up. late season birds you better double time up to her. ,

[MNpurple]

Interesting responses, some say keep up with her, some say they train them to wait, personal preference I guess. For those of you who train your dogs to wait and hold up for you, do you find that you still flush the bird at the end most of the time or do they get away?

I have a shock collar but have been very leary to use it in this way, but I maybe throw out commands to her and immediatly nick her if she doesnt listen to the command and then she may associate the nick with the disobeyed command rather than her trailing action?

Fishroger, yep, she is her sister. Shoot me an email if you can and tell me more about the gun dog training you did. cbeckman78athotmaildotcom

[jparrucci]

The nick does keep the dog in line, and also makes sure they are hunting for you, not the other way around. My dog will stop looking back at me after a while if he doesn't get reminded every few hunts. Usually he will work nicely side to side just glancing at me when he crosses in front. When he is on a bird, he will glance over his shoulder, pause, and give me the "lets go" look. I've tried to slow him down and work slowly. This is only good if you can contain the birds. If you are working a very small area or have a larger group of people, this is the best route. I have found that without a question, it is better to get after the dog when he is bird than slowly working the area hard. Rarely will wild public birds sit tight.

[Leff]

Good thread! Reading this helps me with my delimma as well!

[Bryce]

How about the safety issue? Can't imagine an instructor condoning running with a loaded weapon. I'll contiue to call the dogs off of runners to stay close. Have shot more birds trying to circle around over the years than I've seen birds bust out ahead.

[riverview]

I am not talking a all out run. I am talking about double time a fast walk or lope. and on the birds i hunt late november december and january if you dont double time you will never see the bird

[TR21]

I never had the problem with a dog getting out to far, breaking on flush or chasing birds because it was drilled into him very early in the training process. My dog would never be beyond 20 - 30 feet and would always check back to see if he was too far out. Never needed any collar just a voice command and we rarely, if ever, missed birds that sat or tried to run.

Of course this was with my Golden Retriever, since passed. Now I'm hunting over my son in laws 1 1/2 year old Chocolate, and although well trained, it is a different animal. The things that make a Lab so special also drives you nuts, especially in the field, but he is coming along nicely and should become a good hunter with experience.

[OutlawTorn]

I could understand a quick walk, but running after your dog with a loaded weapon potentially in a group of people on uneven terrain...Ill pass.

If you are running after your dog because it is chasing a bird and you cant stop him, thats a training issue. Your dog is hunting for himself and he doesnt care where the gun is.

Ive been in ND, SD, and IA in December/January in below zero temps with not much cover left for many years. The name of that game isnt to see who makes the most racket chasing a bird. Its a game of "lets see how quiet we can be" and getting the jump on the birds before they run. And if they do, Im not going to blow the rest of the slough out the far side because I want to run after one bird that I dont even know is a rooster.

Im not saying my pup wont break every now and again, but I will not reward that behavior by chasing her and shooting a bird for her to retrieve.

[jparrucci]

I'm definitely NOT talking about running at all. A speed walk or the occassional slow jog is all. That is if and only if the dog is hot on a tail of a running rooster. This is only done when hunting alone. With mutiple hunters/dogs, you take away the ability of the pheasant to run around you (hopefully). Those of us with pointing dogs have dogs that do work out of gun range. Thats the biggest advantage to them, they are able to cover ground you can't. Working late season wiley roosters alone with the dog, I do change my style of hunting dramatically compared to hunting with a group of people. On public land, those birds rarely sit tight. They often bust 200 yards ahead, or do the road runner routine. I can tell when my dog is working a running bird, and instead of going slow and letting that bird escape (its not easy to corner a bird on a WMA cattail slew thats 40+ acres) we work on getting close enough to him where he is trapped between us. Walking slow, this bird will just run around us. QUIET is a key as well. If you can at least get somewhat close to start with, half the game is already won.

[giddyup99]

I got a dog from the same litter as fishroger and mnpurple. I will call her back and make her work more slowly if she is trying to run a bird down. I won't run or jog after her and more often than not she will pick up the trail again and eventually get the bird up. If we don't get it up, so be it. I like watching her work the field and she needs to hunt at my speed and not hers.

She has tons of drive and sometimes its very hard for me to call her off the bird if the trail is hot. When I first began to work with her in the field I worked with a 30 to 50 foot check cord and as she began to take off, just before she hit the end of the cord I would give her the command to slow down. It took a few times of her hitting the end of the cord and getting corrected for her to figure it out, but 9 times out of 10 now when I tell her to slow down she will stop and wait for me to get there. Or she will loop back around and begin working back towards me. If the trail is hot, she won't move until I get caught up, and will begin working the same scent.

I'm not saying that is the correct way to train your dog, but it did work for me. I'm glad I put so much work into that command early on, because this dog does not respond to nicks, beeps, vibrations or otherwise if she is hot on something. It may be poor collar conditioning on my part, but she is in another world at times and I can give her the full correction with the collar and can see her body lurch from it, but she keeps going. It will turn her eventually, but for only being a 60 lb dog, you'd think she'd respond more quickly to such a harsh correction.

[uplander]

Time for a pointer of some kind....they stop and wait for you ...it's amazing! Jk .. That pressing hard towards the bird thing is what a flusher is bread to do that's what drives the bird up if you call them back I feel you have a chance that they may loose the trail. So sometimes you just gotta keep up........or buy a pointer!

[pureinsanity]

Run with the dog. As for the pointer i disagree. I have been hunting with several pointers and they RUN and man they run. They ended up flushing all the birds out 300 yard ahead of me and never ended up point. they just kept pushing the birds.... Do not get a pointer.....

[pureinsanity]

pointers do the same thing when they are on a strong track they run to the bird.

[2thepointsetters]

I have been hunting with several pointers and they RUN and man they run. They ended up flushing all the birds out 300 yard ahead of me and never ended up point. they just kept pushing the birds.... Do not get a pointer.....

You have ODVIOUSLY NEVER hunted behind a steady a pointer. THEY DO NOT CHASE BIRDS, IF THEY DID THEN THEY WOULD BE CALLED FLUSHING DOGS. A trained pointer locks up at first scent and stays there until it is released by the handler.

[pureinsanity]

If a bird is running the dog is going to follow. My problem with the pointer is it gets on one scent and keeps going thus while chasing that scent it surpasses all the other birds way ahead while chasing that one scent...

I have a flusher and he points if he knows the birds there but can't see it. Even on a hot trail he will double back and check to see where I am. Very rarely will he run off more than 50 ft...

And also do not take this in offense. I was just stating my opinion and personal experiences when hunting with English pointers and German short hairs. To each their own. I was brought up with labs and will continue to use them.

I will say though a flusher and a pointer do work well together. Seems one finds a bird the other one missed!

[Bandit]

2thepointsetters is right on the money. If you have hunted behind pointers that chase the birds, they need more training or just don't have IT. I hunted behind a Gordon for years that never once chased a bird. I saw him point a bird that was actually right under him and he had to point under his belly [that was pretty cool ] Got a nice rooster up that bumped him when it flushed! A good pointer is an unbelievable hunting machine. Having said that I now have a lab, as I hunt ducks now and then. But in my opinion a good pointer will get you more upland game than a flusher every time.

[fishroger]

just got back from the dakotas chasin birds with a pointer and my lab , a so called flusher. This situation came up. We took the pointer and my lab out with 3 shooters. The pointer was ranging pretty far out and my lab was following a scent along a fenceline. The pointer went right past the flusher (my dog) and kept on going. Long story short, my flusher cornered a bird and pointed it with the pointer several hundred yards away. Another question? We had trouble in the tall grass losing sight of the pointer. Grass was chest high. The flusher was visible pretty much all the time. What is peoples opinions when there is heavy cover. It fun seeing the pointer point, but if you cant see the pointer?