Howdy all...New to the forum and I need some boat advice (Alumacraft).

[CRFan1]

I live in Indiana but I head up to the Whitefish Chain every june and the Chippewa flowage in August and I have decided to break down and get a boat. Mainly because my 13 year old son has turned into a fishing fanatic, lol, and I could think of worse things for him to do In any case, there is a good alumacraft dealer near me that is advertising some closeout deals on 09 Navigators/Dominators....I WAS looking at the Classic 165 CS but after talking to the sales guy on the phone, the Navigator 165 CS sounds like a lot more boat.

He said I could get the Navigator on an upgraded Heritage Custom Trailer with full size mounted spare, side guides, and swing tongue. Also included in the price is a MINN-KOTA 70AP/US2-60 TROLLING MOTOR, upgraded batteries, AND tie downs. The motor is a 90 ETEC. All this for 18,435, which is more that I wanted to spend but this is seems like a boat that is ready to go.

Thoughts on this? Is this a WAY better boat than the Classic 165 CS? Is this a good price?

[hydro]

Welcome to the forum!

A couple of preliminary questions... How often will you be using the boat? What are the lakes and rivers like around where you live? Is this boat suited for those waters? How much money do you want to spend? Can you do the routine maintenance, or do you plan to have a dealer to take care of that?

The reason I ask is that if you are buying a boat to use once or twice a year you may want to think about doing some homework and finding something used, a few years old. Most fishing boats don't get used all that much, and they depriciate VERY fast, especially in an economy like this one. Alumacraft makes nice boats, as does Lund, Crestliner, and many others, and the size of the boat you mention is good for most small to medium size waters. The internet makes searching this kind of purchase relatively easy. I found my current fishing boat 4 years old, almost new condition, on a dealer lot for about 30% of what it cost new.

On the flip side, if you buy new, you will have a dealer relationship, a warranty, and local support for your new boat. Some nice advantages to that route as well.

[CRFan1]

Thanks for the advice and I am definitely looking used too! I am not sure how much I wanted to spend but 20K would be close to the limit (if I go the finance route on a new one). To answer some of your questions, I will probably be using it 2-3 Saturday's a month locally on small to medium sized lakes and I am 10 minutes from the south end of Lake Michigan and plan on doing some perch/smallie fishing on the breakwalls on calm days.

As far as the maintenance, I am quite capable and that will not be an issue. I don't like dealers touching my stuff too much, hehe

[Northlander]

That price seems high to me. Especially used.

[CRFan1]

No no, that's for a new 09 Navigator 165 CS

[CAMAN]

I just did a search for that same boat, motor and accesories and came up with one in Naperville Illinois for $22145 (I assume this is MSRP?) from what looks to be a boat dealer. $3700 below MSRP sounds like a pretty good deal to me if that includes freight and prep. That motor alone is around $9000.

[CRFan1]

Yeah thats the same dealer (water works)...they have locations in Naperville, IL and Country Club Hills, IL. The country club hills dealer is 30 minutes from me and they seem to be very well respected. Yeah 22K is retail and he supoosedly "blowing out" the 09 for 18,400. Just want to get an idea of what to shoot for price wise. It seems like a nice package with the right motor and trolling motor (not underpowered). BUT...that is a lot of dough

Sad part is the only other Alumacraft dealer in my area is at Cabelas and I dread the thought of buying a boat at Cabelas, lol.

[Wish-I-Were-Fishn]

Wish I had your problem Nice boat, good price. You could do much worse. If you buy it... watch the docks! I hate dock rash on a boat, especially a new one.

[CAMAN]

If I were you I would double check that MSRP with a couple other dealers around the country just to be sure that is the actual MSRP. Not saying they are but they could be just jacking up the price and saying they are giving you a 'Hella Deal', with the new 'blowout price'. I say this because after looking at everything again, $22,000 seems a bit high for that boat.

[BoxMN]

Hey CR fan, we have an older Classic 16 (82) and a 97 TP175cs with 150. The Navigator I believe has a 2xb hull, right? If so, it is much much better boat. Not slamming the Classic, but the difference is night and day.

We have cabin in Crosslake (our lake is not on chain) But I am very familiar with the chain and use it often. Especially if you go out on great lakes, the bigger the boat the better, as you know Alumacraft are good boats. You will like them. I would even say this... for the same price, look at an early 2000's Tourney Pro with a 135 or 150 merc optis, bullet proof boat and bullet proof motors, and I bet you could get it for less than your price, and you would have much more boat even yet.

Anyway, just some advice if going used. I would not be afraid of 7-8 year old boat or motor, just look for one that doesn't look too used Good luck, and enjoy your time on Whitefish next year!

[CRFan1]

Hmmmm...Thanks Caman that is a good point and I willdo some research! Thanks!

[CRFan1]

Hey CR fan, we have an older Classic 16 (82) and a 97 TP175cs with 150. The Navigator I believe has a 2xb hull, right? If so, it is much much better boat. Not slamming the Classic, but the difference is night and day.

We have cabin in Crosslake (our lake is not on chain) But I am very familiar with the chain and use it often. Especially if you go out on great lakes, the bigger the boat the better, as you know Alumacraft are good boats. You will like them. I would even say this... for the same price, look at an early 2000's Tourney Pro with a 135 or 150 merc optis, bullet proof boat and bullet proof motors, and I bet you could get it for less than your price, and you would have much more boat even yet.

Anyway, just some advice if going used. I would not be afraid of 7-8 year old boat or motor, just look for one that doesn't look too used Good luck, and enjoy your time on Whitefish next year!

Thanks BoxMN, I guess it comes down to this, is the Navigator worth 5 grand more? Is the classic a good boat that will last or is it a cheap "promo" boat? I am looking used too....if I can find the right combo I would jump on it. I will have 3 in the boat a lot.....will a classic be ok size wise?

Oh and as far as the Whitefish chain I love that place! Been going there with friends on a "guys" trip (the wives are glad to see us go, hehe) for 21 years. We stay at Kilworry Resort. Great people, great fishing.....

[BoxMN]

Hey CR, I just looked at the HSOforum to check, and the Nav has the 2xb hull. That right there is worth the extra money. Now add that you are also getting 25 more hp and that helps.

THe classic is a nice boat, and ours is 25+ years old and we are still using it, summer as fishing boat, fall as duck hunting boat, and we have no plans to get rid of it. We did a lot of work on it, but it still works

But the Nav will ride MUCH better, is considerably wider, a bit longer. It will be much more comfy. It is bigger in size than our last Alumacraft Competitor (1987) and we fish 3 out of that a ton, and 4 planty of times. Not as roomy as a TP175, but worked just fine. We also had a 90 on that boat (16.5' Competitor), and it fished and skiied fine - just make sure to put a 2 stroke on it instead of 4 stroke if you want to ski... won't get into the 2 vs. 4 stroke discussion here, but on those sized boats and for that purpose the etec or the opti are the go-to motors.

Good luck! Do you still go to Moonlight in evenings up there, or have you grown up in the 21 years? haha! I don't go there at night anymore, I am too old now, haha!

[CRFan1]

BoxMN,

Again, thanks for the info! I think I am going to ride over to Cabelas to look at both boats (they have them in stock).

The thing is, the left over 09 Navigator I will be looking at has an ETEC 90 on it which is a big plus and a 70 Pound Minn Kota with auto Pilot, etc. BUT, if I am reading right on the Alumacraft web site, the Classic is listed as having an XB2 hull too....but it is narrower. Believe me, if I think the Classic will fit my needs for two adults and my 13 year old son, I will probably get it and save some money. But, right now I am leaning towards the navigator.

LOL...my moonlighting days are over (not sure they ever started, hehe)!!!

[SkunkedAgain]

I just got a new '08 Navigator with '09 Suzuki 90 and believe that I paid around $19k. I already had the trolling motor but got 4 seats and custom cover. That was mid-summer.

The Navigator is certainly wider than the Classic so you get much more stability. It's heavier too so you'll lose some speed, but a 90 will push it very well. It might put more strain on your tow vehicle though. I used to fish three out of my mid-80s Fisher and loved it. I went up in size/beam in order to ferry four people across the lake in comfort. If I was purely fishing, I'd stick with the smaller boat. A 90 doesn't dial down to slow trolling speeds as well - no matter what the dealer tells you. A 50hp will push three guys around in a boat without problem. You just won't break any speed records getting from point A to B.

This is a great time to get a used boat deal. That might be the best route for you unless you are dead-set on a new rig. Let the dealer know your concerns. Tell him that you're leaning towards a used boat. Make him work on the sale price for you if you really want it.

[BoxMN]

The Classic has 2xb "bow thickness" - basically like all decent boats have always had. It is just in the bow area, I know our older Classic does NOT have th is. Our Competitior DID have the "two plate bow" then, now called "2xb bow". The 2xb hull goes all the way back, with thicker second plate in the bow area. Basically, the difference between the ride in the Classic to the Competitor was huge. We call the Classic the "Kidney Buster" ha! Because the sterm is so flat.

The difference in ride between the 2xb bow Competitor (and nowadays the 2xb bow Classic 16) and the 2XB Hull Tourney Pro is INCREDIBLY HUGE, night and day. I would imagine the difference between the current Classic and the current Navigator is essectionally the same, but I haven't ridden in them, so can't say for sure.

Good luck! I will also say this, the difference between a 17.5' and a 16.5' boat is pretty noticable if you can find a used 175 in TP or Nav, for same price as new 165, I would lean that way.... but you don't "need" it for fishing three, just makes it way more comfy

[CRFan1]

Skunked and BoxMN,

Thanks for the insight...it is truly appreciated! I must admit I am leaning new, mainly because I am having trouble finding something I want in the used market. The other issue is my Garage (the bay is about 19 feet deep)...A 16.5 footer will fit nice in one of the bays, 17 would be pushing it, so there's that. I can't leave it outside in the subdivision I live in so it has to be in the garage. This will strictly be a fishing boat and mostly be out in decent weather...except when I am at the Whitefish chain or Chippewa Flowage, than I go out no matter what, hehe More than likely, if I like what I see in the classic, I will probably go that route with a couple add on's (trolling motor upgrade and Depth finder in the bow). I am going to look tonight and hit that dealer on Saturday.

[Wish-I-Were-Fishn]

I have a 2002 Classic 165 CS with a 50 Yamaha. Decent set up, but I often wish I had a 70hp motor. If you are fishing 3 in the boat, you want a bigger motor IMO.

If you buy used, watch out for the name. My 2002 is called a Navigator 165 CS, but it is the same boat as today's Classic 165 CS. Now the Navigators are much wider and deeper as you know.

If I were buying again, I would go the next size up and look for a used 175 CS, or Tourney Pro. Missed one (170 Tourney Pro) on the auction site before I bought my rig. Had the ending time wrong and drove home from an outing just in time to be just to late

Somebody got a nice rig for 10K

[CRFan1]

Yeah, the 50hp motor is going to be marginal I am sure but an upgrade is somewhat cost prohibitive.

So i go to Cabelas to check out the boat and I have to say that I think the Classic is a really solid package and just about the right size for my needs. SO in talking with the salesman it came down to this:

- Classic 165 CS with Merc 50 ELPTO

- Custom cover, trailer spare and transom saver

- 3 Bank on board charger

- Upgrade Minn Kota 55 pound power drive to the 70 pound 24V power drive with built in transducer

- additional battery for trolling motor

- Humming bird color 788 CI with GPS.

The Hummingbird with GPS will be installed on the dash and the cheapo that comes with the boat will be mounted in the bow.

Total Price, with taxes and all = $16,573. Plus I would get 308 dollars in rewards money to buy all the miscellaneous junk I would need like anchor, rope, life jackets, paddle etc.

Does this sound like an ok deal? Is it bad to buy from Cabelas, LOL

[BoxMN]

Can't tell you if good deal or not, but work the Co-Pilot into the deal somehow, or use your "cash" to buy it. Best thing you will ever spend about a $100 on, seriously

Congrats, you will enjoy the rig.

[CRFan1]

Thanks....I have not bought it yet because I want to take this deal to the Dealer and see what they can do.

So the Co-Pilot and not the auto pilot? I was thinking of trying to get the auto pilot thrown in?

[Flooringuy]

Sounds like a good deal to me.

I purchased an "09" classic165 tiller, same motor no cover,spare or on board charger. 55lb minn kota no upgrade on graph.

With your money back that is cheaper than what I got mine for.

[kdawg]

Just one thing to add, well it's already been stated earlier but... I've never ever talked to a boat owner that was disappointed that he bought too big of a motor for his boat. I've talked to several, and I mean several, boat owners that wished they had bought bigger. I don't necessarily think you should max out the boat for what it will take, but I think you should go 75 to 80 percent of the boat's max. Just my opinion, and I wanted to put it out there because, if it weren't for my bro-in-law, I would have really regretted my motor choice on my first boat. I'd rather have a used boat with a maxed out motor, than a new one with only 60 percent of the motor max on it.

[CRFan1]

Sounds like a good deal to me.

I purchased an "09" classic165 tiller, same motor no cover,spare or on board charger. 55lb minn kota no upgrade on graph.

With your money back that is cheaper than what I got mine for.

Hmmmm...ok that's good to know! Thank you!

[marine_man]

I'll offer my .02 cents here...

A typical rule of thumb for motor HP is to not go less than 75% of the max hp.

It appears the 165 CS max hp is 75... 75% of that would be 56 hp.. so you're close; but, if you can at all swing it I'd recommend bumping your HP to at least a 60 HP.

I've never ever talked to a boat owner that was disappointed that he bought too big of a motor for his boat. I've talked to several, and I mean several, boat owners that wished they had bought bigger.

I agree with this...

marine_man