Dreaded Lymes Disease

[HeavyD]

After searching the archives I was surprised at the lack of posts regarding Lymes disease in dogs (0).

Last year I was astounded to here from my vet that the number of metor area cases of Lymes reported were increasing at a stagerring pace. With that said, I immediatley had the pup checked only to find out she is Lymes positive.

The vet then stated that even though the results showed the smallest amoutn of the virus possible to test 'positive', I should continue with the vaccinations and antibiotic treatments as suggested.

I am curious as to others opinions on this subject and wonder whether or not you have any thoughts on the vaccine's use and ability to control a virus that has never had any major implications in a dog's health, but is only now being considered a threat with its continued spread across the metro area.

My opinion is that this may be just a ploy by the veteranarians to add yet another cost onto our already costly check-ups and that since nothing has been proven yet regarding the mulitple vaccines that exist for Lymes, that they may not be helping at all, just adding up.

I have a friend who is an ex-large animal only doctor (horses and cows) turned domestic animal doctor (dogs and cats) who believes that the vaccines are still so unproven that even he will not recommend them unless the owners ask. His suggestion was to let the pooches immune system handle any problems as it does with many other virus that are carried in dogs blood, but do not normally cause harm to them.

Perhaps someone has had a bad experience with the disease who can argue otherwise and I would appreciate hearing their side. It would help justify some of the dough dished out for the sake of the pups health.

Thanks for any responses,

HeavyD

p.s. My pup has not shown any of the potential side-affects of being infected with Lymes (there are dozens of 'em). The only time she was acting lazy was after the Lymes vaccinations and antibiotic treatments last year. That is a normal thing.

[Cootz]

I personnally have no first hand experience but I've worked with two people who have. Each of their dogs towards the peak of their sickness where barely able to walk outside to go to the bathroom. After a trip to the vet to get shots/whatever they each recovered. That's not to say they wouldn't have anyway, but I've got way too much time/money/love into my dog to take the chance. I'd rather spend an extra $20 on another shot. I also worked with a guy that got the disease. Took the doctors two or three months to figure out what it is. This guy went from a 6'4" 250lbs. guy to a 6'4" shell of a man. Looked like he came out of a concentration camp. Call me paraniod but I believe Lyme's is something to keep in the back of your mind. I also had another buddy of mine get bit by a tick, get the red bullseye then get tested for Lyme's and be cured before anything really happened.

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So many scientists, so few rockets.

[This message has been edited by Cootz (edited 04-15-2004).]

[Mr. B]

My wife and I decided to get our lab vaccinated against Lymes. With the about of time that we spend in the lakes area we decided it was just good insurance. I can not rememeber what it cost because she does not get her booster until November.

Maggie has not showed any ill effects after her booster shot that I can remember.

Being that I am a surveyor and have been nervous about Lymes disease because of the large amount of time I spend out doors any information would be great.

[Bryce]

Had a dog diagnosed with lymes when she was 5 or 6 years old. Couldn't reach down to eat she was so stiff and sore. Think we went through 3 vets to finally get it diagnosed correctly. Once on the meds, she was back to normal within a day. Don't know if she contracted it around here or with her previous owner as we bought her a 3 years old. We now do the annual vaccination but I have to call our vet to get more info. We switched to vacs every 2 years and I forgot to ask about lymes. Will post when I get the info. With the dog that was diagnosed, we were told that it could reappear at any time but she lived to 12 without a reoccurrance.

[HeavyD]

Bryce, please let us know if you find out anything regarding the 2 year vaccination cycle as it would seem just as effective as the 3 boosters per year, only because all it is doing is keeping the disease active in the dogs blood system and keeping their antibodies at a high enough level to ward off any flare-ups. This is common among human lymes patients as well.

It is also very comforting to hear others stories (with no horrible endings) since I do not know anyone else who has had to deal with this with a dog. I agree that the dough is not major for the joy she brings me, but I just like checking to see if anyone else actually gave the vaccinations (still unproven) any thought or if y'all just forked out the cash for anything doc said the pooch needs. I am thinking most folks go with the latter, kinda like when I sent the wife to get the oil changed

Thanks for the replies and yes, I am one of those guys who likes to question everything, not just my vet. bills Especially an unproven vaccine being given to my best friend.

HeavyD

[Swamp Scooter]

My dog got Lyme's the first time in the field just before she was 6 months old so she could not get the shot yet. I went through 3 weeks of antibiotics with no ill effects. She was limping and not feeling well but came out of it as the virus got treated. I will continue to give the yearly booster. The first time you need to give 2 shots about 2 weeks apart and then yearly.

I also use the topical drops on the dog. This helps a lot and does not interfere with their nose either. The ticks are so small you almost never find them until they fill up a little. If you are out in the spring and Fall you should get the shot. You can order them online and they are only about $10 each if you get the 10 dose vial. I am looking for a few people who would like to go in on it. Any takers. I am in the metro area. I also do all the other shots except rabies the same way. LOTS cheaper. Heartworm throught the catalogs is about half as much as the vets charge. You can still get the test from your vet and then just have them write the prescription.

Do not take this lightly as the long term effects can be dibilitating.

[Grabs]

I would like to learn more about giving my dog its own shots at home,...can anyone provide some insight on this. Sounds like a great way to save a few bucks and really no risks involved.

[Swamp Scooter]

I am not a vet but have been giving mine and my friends animals shots for years. It is so much cheaper. The rabies needs to be done by a vet, heartworm test and script too, but the rest of them you can order and do yourselves. The shots are mostly given under the skin and it is not traumatic at all.

The over the counter topical will deter the ticks and kill them but is not a preventative measure as the vaccination is.

[email protected]
If anyone is interested in going in on some things. I order from F0$ter and $mith. I would love to share the cost of the Lyme's. I do not have enough dogs to use it all up. I think I use 3 of the 10 dose vial for Lyme's. The regular booster can be ordered individually and is less than $4 each. I think the heartworm is about $6 a pill instead of twice that at the vet.

Open shot clinics at Pxt$mart is where I go to do Rabies, $14

[scotty18]

My llewellin has been vacinated with no side affects. As far as it's effectivness, I think time will tell. The human equivalent was pulled from the market because it didn't work. My father contracted Lymes about 5 years ago. He's doing good, no effects. He was diagnosed early, within a week of the bite. Early diagnosis is the key for man or dog.
Any muscular pain/fatigue or "off" feeling after a trip to the woods should be checked by a Dr./vet, even if you don't find a tick. Even if the Dr./vet rules out Lyme's insist on a blood test. My old man was lucky, he caught it early.

Scotty

[scotty18]

Grabs and the rest who give your own shots, don't do it. You spend thousands of dollars on your best friend and risk their life trying to get cheap shots. I speak from expreience, it's not worth it. I had some "friends" who talked me into giving my own shots and using hog wormer for heartworm. It works great, you can get everything you need at Fleet Farm or from the net. I saved lots of money and time, and my Cheasepeke is buried under her favorite tree.

Leave the vet stuff to the vets. If you want to learn more about what you can do for your dog, ask your vet. I sat down with my former vet and spent about 5 hours learning about "first aid". Being a former emt, I carry enough stuff to keep him alive until I can reach a vet. Is everyone out there prepared for a severed artery while your hunting? It happens.

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now,
Scotty

[ATM]

Scooty18, as a new dog owner what are some things that are essential to a dog first aid kit that one may not think of. I have a kit but it is just a basic kit from cabelas anything that I would need over that? Adam

[scotty18]

Adam, you would be supprised what you can do with the basic stuff. I carry the same stuff for people or dog. Gauze wrap, 4x4 bandages, tape and sissors. I think you can find dog first aid info on the net, and a lot of the same principals for people apply to dogs. (the ABC's). I have also picked up a lot of info from hunting and dog magazines.

Thanks, Scotty
P.s. throw a ace bandage in there too.

[Norsky]

Just a tip- heartworm medications can be bought over the internet from Australia, the exact same stuff you buy here, without a prescription, and much much cheaper even with shipping, the U.S. dollar is very strong there right now.

[Cootz]

Anyone know of where a person can buy some catgut? Or staples? I've used all I had and would like to replenish.

ATM I keep pepto bismol tablets, asprin, salin solution, iodine, that stuff you spray on horses and etc. for healing wounds, all the bandages/wraps/gauzes, super glue, staples/catgut & needle, hydrogen peroxide, amoxacilin (forgive the spelling), that's all I can think of now.

I know I'm going to get the "you shouldn't be stitching your dog up" speech but sometimes s--t happens in places out of your control.

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So many scientists, so few rockets.

[scotty18]

Cootz, are you kidding about stitching your dog? You won't get any greef from me. As long as you know what your doing, I think it's good. Now that I don't work on an ambulance anymore, when I go to the clinic, I just ask the doctor that I'm there to see for some catgut,etc. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Becareful of the pepto bismal and asprin. Both of those can have adverse affects on dogs. Asprin can promote internal bleeding.
I think there's a big difference between doing what you have to to keep your dog alive until you can get to a vet and taking chances doing your own shots.

scotty

[This message has been edited by scotty18 (edited 04-20-2004).]

[ATM]

Is a vaccination required I have been using the over the counter tick stuff from petco, will that do or is a trip to the vet required. Adam

[Cootz]

Well the pepto was when he was a pup. Told mom not to give him any real bones but she did anyway. Needed something to make him solid again. Half a tablet did the job. About the only time I give him asprin is on pheasant hunts when he runs all day and is sore the next day. Probably only once or twice a year.

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So many scientists, so few rockets.

[Swamp Scooter]

Scotty18,

Sorry to hear about your experiences. The products I am referring to are the same as you get at the vet. Same maker of the shots, same dosages but not the expense. I would not recommend a substitute wormer either.

[Swamp Scooter]

Too bad. Three weeks of antibiotics and hope for the best. Was it caught early? How old is the dog? Mine got it just before she was old enough to get the vaccination. she is fine now but I always watch carefully. those daxn ticks never used to be a problem until a few years ago (10). Funny how such a small insect would travel all the way with the disease from Lyme Penn!

[DANR]

She has shown no symptoms at all, so it looks like it was caught early . They are recommending 4 weeks of antibiotics. She is 10 years old and in excellent health so hopefully everything will go well.

[DANR]

One of my dogs just tested positive for Lymes. She has been vacinated for it since 2001. The manufacturer told the Vet that she must have contacted it prior to that . Her partner tests ok and goes every where she goes, so maybe they are right.