Micro Guides

[upnorth]

I was reading else and someone brought up micro guides and went out did some looking. Wow are those thing tiny, I could see have some difficulty threading the guides.

Anyone did anything with these yet? I have been thinking maybe on an Ultra light in future.

Fuji Alconite #12 double foot guide on the left, #6 alconite single foot in the middle and the Micro guide Fuji LSG 3.5 on the right.

[polarsusd81]

Those are certainly some small guides. Wonder how much weight could be saved? Here is the question I would pose. Would a guide that small on an open water rod actually decrease the casting distance due to the line being in contact with the guide at almost all times. I think they would work well for an inside ice rod, but open water might be a different story. If I am wrong, please help me understand as I don't know everything about guides and line, always room to learn more.

Thanks for sharing.

[rodmaker]

Upnorth, Tom.

These guides sure do look small. Are you thinking about these guides for a Summer rod. Depending on the cost, I have built my last 3 Summer rods with titanium guides. They are light for sure. (but more spendy) I have not been disappointed.

You can always contact Thorne Bros and talk to Lonnie about this. I would like to hear more about these also.

[upnorth]

If there is an issue with casting distance it would be line slap against the blank. You would save probably 1/3 the weight of the guide as you still have the foot and the frame for the guide. It would really work well for an in the ice house rod, but outside no.

What I really see as a benefit would on a longer ultra light as they tend to get a bit whippy. And the lesser weight would help keep them a little faster.

[CHM]

I have several rods with Batson 3mm guides. If you really want the info go to dot org and search micro.

Many benefits on casting and spinning rods. Weight is one. Others - Less damage in the rod locker. Less fouling with braid. They work. Not for every rod or situation -but several bass tourney guys are using them with good results. If you can thread a hook you can use micros.

Chuck

[Dark Cloud]

I use single foot small fly guides on some ice rods, these may be another option for an inside rod. Anyone play with them on an icefishing rod? I'll have to check some out...

[A.W.Wolfram]

What I really see as a benefit would on a longer ultra light as they tend to get a bit whippy. And the lesser weight would help keep them a little faster.

upnorth,

You read my mind....I'm building a 7'UL spinning and I plan on using 2.5mm micros for the running guides. With all the hype I have to check them out.

From what I have read, the guides reduce blank slap by directing the line in a more linear direction and not allowing it to coil. I have also read that they work better with braded line then stiffer, more memory ridden mono. According to the guys using them, you can cast 20%+ further.

The lay out I’m going to use is; 20, 12, 7fly, 2.5 micro runners out with a 4mm ring tiptop.

This makes me wonder…..how do you think a knot from a fluorocarbon leader or a bobber stop will pass thru a 4 ring tiptop?

Micro guides are gaining popularity with Bass guys at an astonishing rate.

[upnorth]

I wouldn't be as concerned about the 4mm tip top as the 2.5mm guides. Those would be tiny, what, less than half the size of a 6mm. If you are using really light line it should be fine on the leader knot, not so sure about a bobber stop.

I have used fly guides in the past on rods as the running guides, just not that small. I just built an a couple ultra lights last year and I am wishing I would have seen these micro guides then. These are not real long at 6 ft but it would have been nice to take some weight off.

[kenais]

I've built many rods with #4s and a few now with #3s, I use the Batson guides. I hate the #4 tips (smallest available) and almost exclusively wrap a single foot as a tip. The metal seems much stronger and the tip can match the running guides; they are a challenge to wrap on small diameter tips though. The rods built with micros cast farther, more accurately and are far more sensitive. There is also less breakage, you would need considerable force to remove the micros using a pliers (I wrap using the “locking Forhan” method; a must in my opinion with the micros).

I built a 7' UL with #3s last summer and it is unbelievably light and sensitive (holy ‘smokes’ is the most common phrase when some uses it for the first time, will you make me one is the second most common). You do not need any more than 2 transition guides to the micros. I’d lay it out with a 16, 8 or 6 then micros to the tip. Place the first micro at 27x the spool diameter and make the 16 and 8 “bullseye” with the first micro so the line isn’t jumping around. Space the micros depending on the rod action (fast action needs tighter spacing at the tip than moderate…).

I'm building a few ice rods right now to take up the LOW next weekend with #3s, they are UL St. Croix (hollow blank) tip sections from a 2-pc with a handmade carbon fiber grip. I'll let you now how they work on the ice.

[Dark Cloud]

Kenias - How does that 7 footer you built with the micro's cast? I have been reading alot about them and am thinking about building up a 7ft walleye rod with em. I fish alot on one particular river where long casts with an 1/8th oz jig are needed. 4/1 fireline on a fast action ML 7 footer does the trick but im always looking for better...

[kenais]

The 7' rod casts light lures farther than any rod I own. The rods built with micros will outcast the same rod with conventional guides. There is less weight on the rod tip which means that more of the power will be used to propel the lure, not the rod.

[Dark Cloud]

Not trying to overcomplicate things but if weight is the only factor then I could just use recoil guides. Im just a tad leery of the line shooting through the small guides as well as a bigger guide...

[kenais]

I haven't weighed a recoil but would guess a #3 single foot weighs less than the smallest recoil and requires about 1/3 of the thread and epoxy.

The line slap is what determines casting distance, the friction in the rings is not really a factor. The only thing you can do is try out the micros and see for yourself. They are inexpensive and well worth the effort. If you're ever in my neck of the woods I'll let you borrow one of mine;)

[FishinFreaks]

I built about 15 rods with micros last year. All of my bass and walleye rods will be built with micros from here out. The weight difference is that a 6mm alconite guide weighs about the same as 4-5 3mm guides. With that weight savings, I'm putting an extra guide on my rods for line control.

One of the big benefits of lighter guides on the tip is that your blank is less affected by the guides, and the action of the rod is truer to its original, n@ked design.

I bought a good supply of them last year - about 30 rods worth. If you'd like to see them on a rod up close, let me know.

[Dark Cloud]

If someone has the guides and a scale, I wold love to see the weight diff between a 3mm "micro" guide and a size 6 recoil. Or even a size 1 recoil single foot fly guide...

[Wildabeast]

I haven't weighed a recoil but would guess a #3 single foot weighs less than the smallest recoil and requires about 1/3 of the thread and epoxy.

One of my winter projects is to rebuild a steelhead rod to replace the recoil guides with something better. The recoils are light but they don't shoot a fly line anywhere near as well as a ceramic ring.

If you're going to go with micro guides I would also lighten up my wraps (use silk or go wrapless), and use a very thin finish.

[A.W.Wolfram]

I received my order of micro guides today…………………..WOW.

You can fit them sideways thru an 8 ring.

They will be fun to wrap. I can't wait go get this 7'UL finished.

[kenais]

I find that it helps to use Flexcoat guide foot adhesive when wrapping the micros. Just be sure to not get any outside of the footprint (or burn your fingers), it can work its way through the thread when aligning the guides. Just keep telling yourself its a fun challenge the first few;)

I like using Threadmaster-Light epoxy with micros, very easy to work with.

I have built a few steelhead rods with #4s, they worked great until November when the eyes froze. Building one with #8s for freezing weather steelies.

[kenais]

Some guide weights in grams (guides only, all are single foot unless noted)...interesting that wrapping a #3 single foot for a tip weighs 1/10s of a #6 tip top.

Most data from http://rodcomponents.koolhost.com/guides.htm

#6x5 Fuji tip hardaloy - .337

#6 Recoil - .070

#6 Ti Fuji - .120

#6 Fuji SIC - .160

#4 Fuji - .055

#3.5 Fuji - .041

#3.5 Ti Fuji - .036

#3 Fuji - .032

#2.5 Fuji - .021

[Dark Cloud]

Kenias - Thanks alot for the info! Those numbers are what I was looking for.

Getting the true action of a blank is one important reason I use smaller and lighter guides. "micros" are surely the lightest option going. I'll be building with them in the near furture

[upnorth]

Interesting Info. Those micros are pretty light. Something to consider is the ring on hardaloy, SIC, Alconite doesn't weigh a whole lot, the weight is in the frame. Keep the frame size down and the weight stays down. I remember the days of working in a machine shop and the ceramic/hardaloy inserts seemed like feather weight compared to carbide etc.

[bemidjibasser]

Kenais, where do you get your micro's from? I am looking to get a few sets to try on a couple blanks that I have to wrap. Thanks for the info...

[kenais]

I've been getting my Batson micros from Bob at Custom Tackle, he is really into the micros and usually has them in stock [Note from admin: Please read forum policy before posting again. Thank you.] . Bob is a good guy to deal with and an avid fisherman who knows a ton about rod building. They are available from a few other places too.

[bemidjibasser]

Are there multiple companies that are making the micros or just one? I was unable to find them on the custom tackle HSOforum, but did find them on swampland's site. I think they are made by castaway??? Does that sound right?

[kenais]

They are made by Batson and Fuji. They are not in the Batson catalog or on Fuji's HSOforum. Fuji's metal seems softer to me and their micros are lower profile making it a challenge to keep the epoxy out of the eyes. Custom Tackle's HSOforum hasn't been updated in years, you would need to call him . If you call he might have the new 'Ultimate Micro' from Batson, I haven't seen it yet.

Known Batson stocking suppliers:

Swampland (only one with an up to date HSOforum)

Custom Tackle

Utmost Enterprises (across the street from the Batson warehouse)

Bingham Enterprises

Schneider Rods (also has black micros with gold rings, blingbling)