??? about Amsoil mixture, Oilman????

[Eric Wettschreck]

In my 87, 70 HP Johnson I disconnected the VRO and pre-mix my gas. I started using Amsoil Sabre Outboard this year. What an improvement!!! Tap the key and the motor starts, (if you know the history of this motor you will understand how much of a blessing this is), runs way smoother, much better at idle, and a TON cleaner. In the small amount of time I've been using this oil I've only had to choke the motor once to start it. Otherwise, literally tap the key and the motors running.

The packaging says mix 100:1, and I've been told time and time again to mix 100:1, but I guess I'm old school and in the back of my mind I just can't get myself to mix that lean. I've been mixing right around 70:1. My question is, besides just wasting oil, is there a potential for damage by mixing "Richer" than recommended? My gut tells me no, but I'd like to hear from someone more in the know.

[DinkADunk]

your gut is correct. You can mix it at the ratio recommended by the motor manufacturer up to the ratio suggested by Amsoil. If you feel comfortable with 70:1 then go with that.

[fishinmajishin]

I picked up a '82 Johnson 35 hp that has less than 20 hrs on it. Starts and runs like a 2 stroke should. Mix Johnson oil 50:1. Should I continue with the Johnson oil, or would switching to Amzoil be beneficial?

[marine_man]

I can't speak to it from personal experience, but quite a few people on FM have made the change to ams oil and run at lighter ratios than 50:1 and have been satisified with the results.

Before you make the switch I would try and run as much oil out as you can.

marine_man

[dan z]

I would prolly stick to the noraml stuuf amzoil is thinner and it could fall the the leaks/broken seals that the regular oil fills and clogs. I was told by and advanced auto guy tho stick with what works on older motors.

[theoilman]

I've been off line for a couple of days -

No, you won't hurt the motor running it richer at your 70-1. A lot of people choose to be on the safe side and run it richer, but the most popular rich ratio is probably 80-1. 100-1 is 8 oz to 6 gallons, 80-1 is 8 oz to 5 gallons.

I've seen many reports of AMSOIL Saber Outboard at 50-1 and still nearly smokeless and no carbon.

NOTE: for pre-mix in outboards use Saber Outboard product code ATO. (The Saber Professional prod. code ATP you use in your augers and other air cooled 2-cycle engines is a different product, different additives, etc.)

[NCLaker]

I have a 1997/98 75HP Force by Mercury 2 stroke oubourd (I know you all love this brand, but it came with the pontoon boat and I got a great deal on it :-)

I have been using standard QuickSilver stuff at 50:1. And have been debating on switching to Amsoil. I use it in my ice auger and love the stuff. I thought I read in the automotive forum that if you have been using standard oil in an older engine it's whole life that you are better off staying with it then making the switch to a synthtic (forgot the exact reason, I think Oilman concurred). So for my 2 stroke, does the same thinking apply?? The engine has been running great and I don't want to risk messing it up, but like some of the advantages of Amsoil.

Also, for this motor do you recommend going with 87-Oxy or 91-nonOxy gasoline (especially if I go with Amsoil). They don't sell a lower octain nonOxy close to where I live. The manual recommends nonOxy if available at 87 or higher. I am fine with going with the 91-nonOxy, but I thought I read in another post that it might cause more carbon build up at the higher octane. I also don't have a fuel/water seperater filter on it so not sure if I am missing something there as well (but that may be a subject of a different post).

All this stuff is very confusing because I read so many contradicting opinions.

[walleyewild]

NCLaker,

I switched my 95 Merc 40HP over to AMSOIL hp injector this summer after running quicksilver plus for the last 13 years, the motor has never run better, no smoke or loading up, I have put probably 25 gallons of gas through it so far this year (87 octane, 10% oxy) have always ran regular through it, (can't justify the extra .20 a gallon, or more for the 91).

I will only use the hp injector going forward, no doubt in my mind that it was the right thing to do, motor runs as good or better now then when it was new, after break in.

I was like you at first a little leary in switching, but after reading the posts on here from the guys that have switched I figured what the heck, lets give it a shot. I figure I have many more years with this motor, so if I can keep it running like new without all the carbon build up, and doing my little part to save some fossle fuel by not using dino oil to mix with the gas then I am money ahead. It doesn't cost much more for a gallon of the hp injector then the quicksilver, and from what I have seen so far I will be saving money in the long run.

[NCLaker]

Thanks for the great testamonial Walleyewild.

I see you chose to go with the HP Injector instead of the Amsoil Outboard product. Is that because your motor is oil injected and/or EFI/DFI? I am assuming that since my motor is premix and not EFI/DFI that I should go with the Amsoil Outboard 100:1

Also, Do you use a water/fuel filter as an extra measure of protection with the oxy fuel?

[marine_man]

I thought I read in another post that it might cause more carbon build up at the higher octane.

While I'm not a fuel / oil expert I have a difficult time believing that. Octane is a measure of how stable the gas is, and nothing else. I don't know why the stability of gas would cause more carbon buildup at a higher octane.

marine_man

[raymondk]

higher octane burns slower in an engine that is low compression there is a chance of more carbon build up lower octane burns faster which leaves the engine faster with less chance of build up . I have been having real good luck just running reg gas from any station i also use amsoil injector oil mixed at about 60/1 motor runns great i also tryed non oxy which was higher octane I did not notice any differce in any way I would sooner have fresher gas then take chances on older gas with non oxy

[dkf]

2-strokes don't have near enough compression to warrent anything more than 87 octane. 85-87 octane is good, higher octane can actually make a 2-stroke run hotter and lose power.

I've been running Amsoil Sabre Outboard for a couple years now at 75:1 in my yamaha 25hp and 6hp motors. I'm going to be switching the 130hp yami over to HP injector once I run the Yamalube out. I use Amsoil marine gearcase oil also for several years. Use all kinds of Amsoil products and have good results. The 2-stroke oils burn very clean.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Thanks for the reply, Oilman. That's the info I was looking for.

I should add, this is a rebuilt powerhead. So, the older motor theory goes out the window.

[walleyewild]

NCL

mine is oil injected

[theoilman]

Clarification - most in this thread are talking about pre-mix, one or two oil injected. -----

If it is oil injected do NOT use AMSOIL Saber Outboard. Saber Outboard is for pre-mix ONLY!

Oil injected outboards have a choice. My preference is use the Saber Outboard at 80-1 or 100-1. If you use AMSOIL HP Injector as a pre-mix do NOT go leaner than 50-1!

When using the Saber Outboard you use less oil, and get less octane dilution, and potentially more power.

[dkf]

Clarification - most in this thread are talking about pre-mix, one or two oil injected. -----

If it is oil injected do NOT use AMSOIL Saber Outboard. Saber Outboard is for pre-mix ONLY!

Oil injected outboards have a choice. My preference is use the Saber Outboard at 80-1 or 100-1. If you use AMSOIL HP Injector as a pre-mix do NOT go leaner than 50-1!

When using the Saber Outboard you use less oil, and get less octane dilution, and potentially more power.

Most oil injected outboards run around 100:1. What makes the HP Injector perform so different between an oil injected vs premix that you can't premix it at 100:1. Just curious as I'm shure others are as well. I plan to switch over to HP Injecter in my 02' 130 Yami.

[theoilman]

Good question, but one I don't know and am going to have to find out about and post back when I do. It will likely be Monday before I can get the right info.

Yes, most oil injected engines at mid throttle are actually running 100-1 or even leaner. But at idle and low end acceleration they run richer, as at wide-open-throttle they run richer -- most are a variable ratio according to the power curve of the engine.

[dkf]

Much appreciated Oilman.

[theoilman]

Sorry to take so long to get back on this - we had 20" of rain here (Tallahassee, FL) from Fay. Power was out about 4 hours, cable/internet have been out for 3 days, and the 1/2 mile of dirt road to get out from my house was cut in 3 places. Replying to forums has been at the bottom of the priority list.

The question was - if you take an oil injected outboard and disable/remove the oil injection system and use pre-mix only, why do you need to use 50-1 mix ratio using AMSOIL HP-Injector oil? Most oil injection systems are a variable ratio system. If you were to only ever run a mid-throttle you can get by with a very lean ratio - probably even much leaner than 100-1; but at start-up and idle/low-end throttle most variable ratio systems run at around 50-1, and at wide-open throttle they run even richer. To get safe lubrication for all operating conditions AMSOIL recommends that when using HP-Injector as a pre-mix use it at 50-1. (AMSOIL Saber Outboard is a much richer oil and it can be used as lean as 100-1.)

[dkf]

Sounds good. Thanks oilman. Hopefully you guys don't see more rain from Gustov.

[Phred52]

fishinmajishin, I run a '77 Jonny 35 on my pontoon and Amsoil Sabre Outboard premixis all I feed it! The first tank of the year is 80:1 after that it's 100:1 for the rest of the season. If I recall correctly, this was my 13th or 14th season using Amsoil Sabre Outboard premix. Just try a tankfull in that motor, you WILL definitely notice MANY improvements! BTW, I push a 24' Weeres pontoon with 21" tubes, so that motor is working. Phred52

[bd477]

I have a 1977 evinrude 115 that I run a mix of 40:1 right now.

I have a 1974 19ft crestliner trihull.

I buy what ever oil is the cheapest on the shelf at the time of purchase of the gas.

I have been running the cheap super unleaded gas in the motor.

Top speed is about 30mph.

at low idle everyone gets wet.

I know I am probably doing it all wrong.

What advantages would I have by switching over oil and what proper gas should I be using?

Now I know everyone's opinion is going to be different.

Any and all advice will be considered.

thanks

brad

[mnhunter2]

Oilman, I have been running the Saber outboard oil in my 61 3hp evinrude and my 89 25hp merc and it works great but I have ran out of the saber and have used some of the standard 2-stroke oil in them for a couple of tanks. I know that its not recomeded but how much different is it than the saber and at a 50-1 to 70-1 would there be a problem running the standard 2 stroke oil?

[theoilman]

Question mnhunter2? When you say 'standard 2 stroke oil' do you mean AMSOIL HP Injector? Both Saber Outboard and HP Injector are diester based, ashless oils. The Saber Outboard is much richer and able to be used as lean as 100-1, it is also heavier or thicker. The HP Injector is thinner - the injection systems are critical to viscosity. The HP Injector is rated as a pre-mix at 50-1. (See my post above about the variable ratio and why don't use HP Inj. leaner than 50-1.)

If you mean 'standard' as a conventional petroleum based lubricant, AMSOIL Saber Outboard is entirely different. AMSOIL's ashless formula burns away clean, leaving no carbon behind. The AMSOIL will reduce emissions 60% or more compared to petroleum based lubes - every fisherman ought to take this to heart - reduce emissions, reduce polution in the fishing waters!

[theoilman]

Reply to bd477 --

Cheap oil will leave behind carbon buildup, raising compression ratio and requiring higher and higher octane fuel.

AMSOIL Saber Outboard pre-mix burns clean, leaves no carbon, and will clean pre-existing carbon. A word of caution - if you have been using cheap oils you probably have a good bit of carbon buildup, you should have your engine decarboned first. (Cheap oil = more expensive maintenance, you may save a few pennies on the oil, but you will get higher wear and have higher maintenance costs in the long run. AMSOIL is higher priced, but lower cost!)

Most 2-cycle engines would prefer no-oxigenated gasoline, gasoline with no alcohol, but that is becoming harder and harder to find. Almost all pump gas in many states is 10% or perhaps a little higher alcohol now. Good luck on your gas, there are few good answers anymore. In general I would recommend use the lowest octane your engine performs well with.