Roof Valley Flashing

[stick]

I am expecting a new roof due to some hail damage, and my neighbor said that his roofer didn't use "valley flashing" (I think that's what he called it) and they just put shingles in the valleyes. Which is better? I would imagine flashing, but what are any comments?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Roofer]

Either way is fine, but I prefer painted metal valley. I think weaving them is the cheap way, but just my opinion. I have seen way too many leak. I imagine your neighbor paid or got paid for valley metal, but he didn't get it. With my system the shingles adhere to the valley and cannot ever leak. With dimensional shingles, any other way has voids and can possibly leak. It's tough to explain, but when we show people our method, they can easily see that it's better.

To answer your question.......valley tin is not required, but yes it is much better, IMO.

[fishonnopeoff]

I imagine your neighbor paid or got paid for valley metal, but he didn't get it.

How did you come up with that?

[Roofer]

Insurance company's estimates will cover for new valleys, unless they were not installed previously.

[fishonnopeoff]

Ah, I see.

[fishin4fun85]

ya....just put some ice n water down in the valleys....throw the tin in the valles....then just use a bead of roof tar under the shingles that will go over the tin in the valley....pretty simple really...

[Roofer]

Or you can run a shingle up the valley putting the tar strip down the tin and then butt your regular courses up to it. That's how we do it. Quick, easy, no cutting, and both sides of the valley can be done at the same time.

[rtwills]

Roofers way works great. I also do full weave and like to put a valley tin down on those too even though code doesn't require it.I actually prefer the look of a full weave valley I think it looks cleaner.

[buckeyes08]

You can do that(Roofers way) and still have problems. I've seen it where it will rot under the shingle because it will trap moisture from condensation. I think open valley is the best. Yes I'm a general contractor. I believe quality is the best policy.

[Roofer]

I still have an open valley the way we do it. I can't seem to find any pictures. I will have some in a few days. Been doing it this way over 24" wide 'W' valleys for years. Never had a leak. When the shingles are cut is when you have voids and water can sit. Timberlines are notorious for this because their multi-layer is not fully sealed. They are just attached at the bottoms.

[buckeyes08]

So what about the big class act lawsuit with certainteed I heard it might put them under. In my area we have about a 100 claims a month.

[Roofer]

You heard wrong.

That lawsuit is old and is for Classic Horizon Shangles which the Shakopee plant doesn't even make anymore. I have side by side picture of Timberlines and Landmarks, it is obvious which is better quality.

What area has 100 claims a month? Probably from Contractors passing Shangles on to homeowners as 30 year laminates.

We'll talk if you want to talk.

[pike doctor]

I do a couple of Certainteed claims a year for homeowners with the Horizons. I used to be able to get Certainteed to pay for all the materials, and the homeowners would pay the labor. That ship has sailed. The last couple years they get a couple hundred dollars and thats about it. Those bad batches just cant handle the direct sunlight. The southern exposure always looks the worst.

I completely agree with Roofer that the Landmarks are much better than the Timberlines, Elk, and Owens Corning. It is hard to sell people Certainteed with all of the bad press. The Landmarks dont deserve it. I have been tearing off Timberlines and OC laminates and they look like complete garbage after a couple years. The laminates dont stick together at all. The only hail claims I have had denied in the last twenty have been two Landmark roofs.

They are tough, I think they look better, seal 10 times better than anything else, and they fight algae on your well-shaded roofs.

The only thing I wish I could change about them is the price. I am paying about $26 a bundle for the shingles and about $34 for the hip and ridge. Timberlines are cheaper, but I wont use them unless the homeowner absolutely wants them.

[buckeyes08]

One of the yards that I work though has a lot of shingles from certainteed laying on the floor waiting to be sent in for claims. Not saying that their bad but why so many claims? It was the rep. from certainteed that said it was about a 100!

[pike doctor]

They made a couple of bad batches. They didnt have the formula right and the shingles couldnt handle the direct heat. Eventually they start to curl up crack, and lose all of their granules. The claims that I have done are from the batches they did in the early 90s.

I have a couple of homeowners in the area that have called me cause they had hail claims denied on their horizon shangles by American Family, but I havent had time to look at them yet. Apparently the story they are getting is that their shingles are defective, and the insurance doesnt want to pay. I guess we will see.

[Roofer]

Which rep? We deal with Howie. He handles our claims. Just recently had a claim their siding fading within a few years. You have to deal with them on the claims. They need to be pressured a little to pay the price.....

The shingles should not be setting on the floor at the yard. They should be sent in to Certainteed. I can't wait for this lawsuit to be over because I know for a fact I am selling a better shingle using the Landmark over anything else. I have them on my own house and have been through two hail storms and haven't had an ins. claim.

As for the valleys, I should have pics tomorrow. They are of Timberlines, but that is what the customer wanted.

[Roofer]

I have seen Horizons 5 years old that go bad. It's just a bad shingle. The hail damage is hail damage, no matter how you put it. If they want to deny a claim, they legally have to send out a letter stating that they won't be covered. The agent is supposed to periodically inspect homes they insure. This job is not getting done. They sit on their bums in an office and write policies. The company they represent should pay the damages, regardless.

[Dbl]

Hey Roofer, I'm installing 40 year Timberlines, do they compare better to the Landmark TL's? Just to be clear on your flashing method, you lay a shingle asphalt strip on the tin up the valley. Then just bring your ends to the edge of that shingle that is diagonal, correct? My last roof I just cut the ends diagonally and caulked the ends to the flashing. Didn't leak in 6 years but your way sounds better to me.

Pardon the bad diagram.

[Roofer]

The Landmark TL is the toughest shingle in the industry. Nothing compares to it, IMO. The Landmark or Landmark plus (40 year) would compare to the GAF/ELK Timberline 40. Look at the spec weights and warranty years. Then go and actually grab a shingle. You'll see the difference.

Your diagram is inverted, but you get the idea. Don't use a strip of shingle, use the whole thing and put the tar strip down of course. This only works with a laminate shingle.

As for cutting them and caulking.....anyone doing this, you are better off leaving the caulking out unless you want to have to redo the caulking every few years. 6 years is lucky, you must have done a superb job. The metal and shingles change their size in heat and cold, that is the problem with caulking. Plus the caulking will just hold up the water flow.

For shingles that rot like mentioned above........the only ones I have seen do that are older organic shingles and Timberlines. The newer shingles are algae resistant and contain much more fiberglass. The landmark has plenty of copper in them to give them their AR.

[Dbl]

Excellent advice, thanks Roofer!