Certainteed Shangles - Horizon -Hail Damage Claim denied

[BMXKING]

I had hail damage to my siding, gutters, deck, and I assumed my 5 year old roof. The Ins. Inspector says they won't cover the shingles since they are "Horizon". Can they do this? I never saw any disclaimer on my policy that said they would not cover my shingles. I feel I paid my premiums which included my roof and the roof is now damaged. Any one else been through this?

I believe the issue is with the Organic shingles not the fiberglass version, which I believe I have.

[Roofer]

Those shingles are known for falling apart. The Shakopee plant doesn't even make them anymore. If you are within 5 years, go to the certainteed HSOforum and print out the warranty papers and instructions. They will know how old they are by the numbers on the back of the shingles (only manufacturer that has that).

Besides that, hire a good contractor. We have made them pay.

This is what I try to stress to people. You can't handle the insurance adjusters alone anymore. They will try to low-ball you into getting someone cheap to do work for you.

What insurance company is it?

[Roofer]

As far as I know, they cannot deny a claim in that fashion without notifying you first that they are not covered. I would get his name and first try reporting it to my agent. If that didn't work I would look toward legal action. After that cancel them and get a better company.

[BoxMN]

Also, I was denied after hail in 98, with a 1996 roof. Don't recall the shingles, but the ins. adjuster said they were good and there was no damage. Well, they really started to go to heck after that, real quick. I am sure it was that hail storm that did the roof in, but after last years hail, they had to give me a new roof anyway. Point being, you will need a roof, and I sure think they should pay for it - that is what you pay ins. for. I agree, get a good contractor and let them take care of your headache for you. Good luck.

[BMXKING]

I have American Family. My contractor is there when these Ins appraisor's are there, but it seems they either aren't or can't say anything to change the guys opinion. I wasn't there the last time, but the guy had some Haag Engineering book with him and said the shingles were damaged before the storm since they were "defective". I have the fiberglass version of gthe shingle, which is not part of the pending Class Action lawsuit. Even it was, who is to say that Certaineed won't win, basically saying the shingles are NOT defective. Any adive on dealing with the Ins Co would be appreciated. My contractor seems like they have more bark than bite. So the appraisor says he sees damage, but it wasn't from the hail? 5 year old roof...How can I argue with logic like that?

[Roofer]

Call your agent and ask for another adjuster. If you still have problems, there are options with the state. Let me know.

If need be, I'll send someone down there and get you a claim for a fee and you can hire whoever you want. I'm getting tired of these ins. adjusters trying to skimp by.

[echotrail]

I agree with Roofer. I filed claim for my roof in 2002 after a contractor said there was severe hail damage. The adjuster (Horace Mann) denied it and said he would only patch one 10'x 10' area. I appealed the adjusters denial and a 3rd party arbitrator examined the roof. He said it needed full replacement. The adjuster still refused so I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (Thats a dog with no teeth) I then filed a complaint with the State of MN Insurance Division (Yes, there is one). They did whatever they did and I got a new roof.

[nofishfisherman]

When dealing with insurance companies you need to realize that they are in the business of trying to pay out as little as possible. Adjusters know that is what the company wants them to do so thats what they are going to do.

My advice is don't give up. Go to your agent first its there job to keep you happy so they should fight for you. If they don't find yourself a new insurer when this is over with.

If your agent won't do anything you will need to fight on your own. You can do a number of things.

1. Request a second adjuster. Read through your policy, there should be a section on what happens if you and the company don't agree on a claim result. It is your right to get a second opinion, you can also pay for an independant apprasial and then take the case to an arbitrator who will decide the claim.

2. File complaints with the state Department of Insurance. Every state has one as the insurance biz is highly regulated. An insurance company can't change their policy/rates/forms or much of anything without filing it with the DOI first. If they are denying your claim becuase of your choice on shingles it needs to be in writing that they don't cover that particualr type. If they truly don't cover them and you had them before you got the policy they should never have agreed to cover you. They are not allowed to change the rules in the middle of the game so request formal documentation of where it states that they do not cover these types of shingles. Make them point it out to you from your own policy/declarations page etc. If they started to not cover those types of shingles after you already had your policy they have to cover you becuase you should be grandfathered in, or they should have sent you specific ammendments to your policy explaining the changes to your policy.

3. Move up the chain as much as you can with your complaints. My parents had their basement flood becuase their sump pump failed during a storm. The adjuster denied the claim becuase the say small cracks in the concrete slab which is where the water came in. He claimed this was a structural flaw and thus deneid the claim. But if you look in any concrete slab that is more then a few years old you will see small cracks in all of them. It is normal wear for concrete. My parents escalated their complaint through the chain of command and finally got to the VP of claims who handled the claim personally with a full pay out. The VP also said he was sending the adjuster to so remote rural location to deal with automotive hail claims since he couldn't seem to handle anything more complicated.

I work for an insurance company but I also need to pay for insurance the same as anyone so i see it from both sides. I am sure the company is hoping you won't put up a fight since most people don't. I bet if you stick to your guns you will get a new roof. Just try to make it expensive for them to keep sending adjusters out, sooner or later it will be in their best interest to just give you a new roof.

[Jim916]

We had a similar problem last year with hail damage to our roof. The adjuster said there were dents but no damage. He was going by the HAAG standard where the shingle had to be broken on the backside for it to be considered damaged. We then requested another adjuster to come out. Our insurance company refused, and sent the same guy out again. He told us the same thing, no damge.

We went through the appraisal/arbitration and we got 6 feet of our front slope of our house paid for. Our roofer got them to at least give us the whole front slope. Well after a few phone calls we found out about a building code that our city was going by: if at least 25% of the roof is being replaced, and if the ice/water shield are not up to code, the whole roof would need to be up to code. We sent this to our insurance company and a few days later we got a check for the whole roof.

We were still out the $375 for the arbitrator, but we did get our new roof.

We did find out that the storm chasers will not stick by you to help you deal with the insurance companys. The roofer would ignore our calls, and only after repeated calls would he finally return our calls. He called back right away in the begining when he thought it was easy money.

We ended up going with a local guy who stood by us and helped us through the arbitration. They also did a really good job on the roof and I would reccomend them to anyone.

We also had one guy tell us we had to sign a contract for him to meet with our adjuster on the roof.

[setterguy]

I just went through this and all I can suggest is to get a good contractor. I called my contractor first and had him come out to inspect it without the adjuster there. He said about 30k to replace the roof, the fascia, aluminum window wraps and all the soft metals on the house. The adjuster came out and said 5500. My contractor handled everything with the insurance company and got a second adjuster to come out and take a look and guess what, it going to be right around 30k (actually a bit more). Find a referred contractor that is willing to handle the insurance guys and your life will be a lot easier.

Good luck.

[Roofer]

We had a claim go from $5800, to $45,000. The adjuster missed most of the roof underlayment, part of the house, and didn't even look at the siding. A new adjuster came out and met with us. He said it was pretty obvious. Some adjusters are just in a rush, some are from out of state and have no idea of current codes, and others are there just to save the company money.

BTW, these are not because of inflated prices (which is illegal), it's just because of reasons I mentioned above.

Just had another one the other day. The price came in at about $6,000. The adjuster missed a bunch of ice and water shield which is code. My price was just over $10,500. It looks like the adjuster is also not at current prices. Prices are going up monthly lately. Shingles were at about $40 a square last year. Now they are close to $70, with the same increases in underlayments, etc...

[BMXKING]

Hi Roofer, can I get your contact info? My contractor doesn't seem to be trying that hard to get this job done. Apparently, he did not even go on the roof with the adjuster. When I met with him the other day he wouldn't leave the ladder since he didn't have the "right" shoes! I asked him to take some pictures of the damage spots which he could reach from the ladder. Could I send these to you for your professional opinion? I am sure we got damage since the gutters and siding are damaged, but I want to make sure, before I think about hiring an arbirator or a lawyer. Thank you.

[email protected]

[Roofer]

You can post the pics if you want or send them to me. As far as this forum, we are not supposed to advertise anything, so I apologize if I was advertising. I will still help you out if you'd like.

As for the "roofer" that won't go on the roof......What the heck! Is it that steep or was he just a salesman?

[BMXKING]

What is your contact info?

Thanks.

[BMXKING]

I sent you the photo's to your e-mail. Let me know what you think. Is it obvious hail damage? This is 5 year old roof.

[Roofer]

Here are some of the pics from BMXKING (hope you don't mind) so everyone can see.

Who circled the spots on the shingles?

[BMXKING]

My contractor circled the damaged areas. I asked him to take photo's in case I needed them for the State Ins Dept. or anyone else that needed to see them. I have more pictures, he took some of the inside of the gutters which were full of the granules as well.

Thanks.