Tape and Mud help

[cliffy]

Long story but I will make it short:

To save money I decided to finish my garage myself. It was already rocked and all I really need to do is tape and mud it. I have been working on it for four days now and all I have learned is that I stink at it. Plus, I have become pretty good at sanding!

Does anyone have any tips or secrets as to how to do this sort thing? I bought all the right tools and equipment. I just dont have the moves down yet. I always end up with a ton of mud on the seems....which in turn makes me the king of sanding. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Cliffy

[bottomdweller]

Its hard to explain and I am far from a professional. But what I did was bought a tape and watched it. They showed what to do. On your factory joints you just go over the tape three times. Starting with a six than eight than twelve. When taking the mud off try to take only half the joint of mud off. Keep pressure on the outside so it feathers out.

What I do on the cut ends, is put mud on both sides of the tape starting with a six inch. Feather it out. Two more coats, going with the bigger blades. It is very hard for me to explain. But the best I can tell you is get a tape to watch. After a little practice you wont be sanding hardly at all. Just on your final run. If your doing alot I would recommend a banjo for your corners. Really speeds it up.

Good luck.

[DrKen]

you have already learned the main thing, that you are putting on too much mud. Typically, there are 3 coats, the first is the imbedding coat. I am assuming you are using fiberglass tape, place tape on and use a 4 inch knife at a 45 degree angle and work the mud through the tape into the seam and clean off the excess to the top of the tape and let dry. The second coat use a 6 or 8 inch knife and just fill the seam and keeping knife at about 45 degrees bring it level with bevels or if no bevels then use a 10 inch and spread to just about knife width. You do not have to press hard on the knife, just firm to the rock. The last coat is just to fill any imperfections, thin the mud a little and add a drop or two of dawn, This helps the mud spread more smoothly. Now use a 12 or 14 inch knife and thinly spread this over the top of the seam with the knife pressed firmly at about 45 degrees. Should be very little sanding to do. It takes time and practice and a garage is a good place to start. Buy good knives and trust them. When I started I was the same as you and sanded off more that i left. Take your time. I actually liked to sit and watch pro's do it. they make it look so easy and so fast. Like a ballet. Have fun, hah hah.

[Roofer]

slow down! In your avatar you are going crazy! It would be easier without your arms flailing about.....

[cliffy]

Thanks for the hints. I spent another day working on it.....I sorta got a little better by the end of the day. I started out by sanding once again. I gotta be honest, I got impatient and put away the sanding stick and pulled out the orbital sander. 120 grit sand paper and away I went. It worked like a charm but now I have white dust in every orifice. I know it looks so so but you gotta realize this is my first time doing this type of thing. My hats off for those that do this for a living and make it look sooooo eassssyyyy. Its a skill that I do believe is outside my skill set.

[reddog]

Cliffy,

The best drywallers do very, very little bulk sanding. Usually only feathering in the edges and smoothing out in between swipes with the knife.

Most folks that dont do drywall work for a living, go about butt joints all wrong. After the initial taping of a butt joint, the onnly time you actually add more mud over the tape, is the last coat. I can see by your pictures that your butt joints are only about 14" wide, and you probably have two or three coats of mud over them, and even then, when you sand em the tape shows up right away.

What you need to do with butt joints, (joints that do not have a tapered edge), is to bed the tape initially, and then, on your next coat, take a 14, or 18" knife, with about a 1/4+" bend in it, and apply a smooth, even bed of joint compound 6 inches away from the actual taped joint, on each side of the joint. This spreads the but joint out to about 36 to 40" away from the joint. When you do this, you are building up a mud thickness away from the actual joint, so when its dry, you can then take a 14" knife over the top of the joint, feathering into the previous built up areas, for a longer, smoother butt joint that spans 36 inches from the joint.

You can never, I repeat, never get enough mud over top of a butt joint, using a 14" knife, and expect it not to show up when the ceiling is finished. It just cant happen, without building it up wider. It will always look like a hump in the ceiling.

The other thing is, is when wiping the nails, do not leave any excess material on the drywall, until the last swipe. its just more work. Its way easier to hit them three or 4 times, than sanding off the excess.

[11-87]

I would have run my sheets the long way.... not up and down,

Then you would only have had one or 2 long seams and been able to do most of it without jumping up and down off the scaffold....

Build another garage, then you can practice again... unless the wife kicks ya out!!!

[cliffy]

Good info to know...that would make sense.

11-87: The garage was rocked when I bought it, so it is what it is.

Thanks for the hints....I gotta try the butt joint thing. I have two bedrooms downstairs to do this winter. Thanks for the tips.

[cliffy]

Reddog:

So, am I pretty much sc$#wed at this point? I guess it does not matter too much as this is only a garage and I took it on as a learning task....but...could a guy take a 12 or 14 inch knife and go to the side of the butt joints as shown in my pic? Or is this only going to mess things up more and cause more sanding? By the way, I hate sanding!

I guess in the long run most of the wall space will be covered by shelves and other misc junk that I will be storing....so I am think those mistakes might not be as noticeable as the ceiling....

[Surface Tension]

Takes years of experience as your finding out.

Your not screwed. Play with a couple butt joints and then decide if you want to continue.

You shouldn't need to sand in between coats. If anything use your knife and knock off a ridge. The progressive coats bring you to the finish, it can't happen sooner so if your sanding in between your taking off that buildup that leads to the finish. With all that dust on the walls you'll need to thin you mud a little.

[reddog]

Yea, what surface tension said...

Your not screwed, your probably in pretty good shape to widen out the butt joints, mainly because its almost impossible to get enough mud over the tape when only hitting it on the surface.

The reason they hang the rock that way, is to eliminate butt joints. Anyone can fill a flat. (tapered edges)

Good butt joints, and consistent texture, separate the pros from the amateurs.

Everyone thinks that this is easy stuff, and it is, the problem is knowing when to eliminate the extra work.

Sanding is only to "feather" the compound do the the surface of the paper.

Oh, by the way, dont sand on the paper too much, and if you do, do a wet sand (damp sponge) to lay the paper fibers back down, or the paper fibers will stand up when you paint.

[MIKE IN lINO III]

I pulled down the suspended ceiling in the basement and rocked it.

I don't like how it came out but my Dad says it looks ok.

If I had to do it again I might hire out the mudding & taping.

Oh and yeah, I sanded my arse off. I wish I would have recieved the tips on this thread.

Mike

[cliffy]

Well, here we go again. I am off once again to the garage. I am going to try and widen the butt end joints as suggested above.

Here is another question. How do you do inside corners and keep them looking neat? I got the tool but they still look messy?

PS: I am going to do a light orange peel texture finish on everything....to help cover my work. Yeah, I know its a garage but I am trying to make the ultimate man's getaway from the warden. Once I am done with the mud/tape I have three 8-foot florescent lights to put up and a ceiling fan....and then its off to do the floor. I put tv cable and surround sound in the garage when they were building it last summer....wife thought I was crazy, the guys working on site gave me the secret man's nod of understanding......

[Surface Tension]

You mentioned the lighting. Hanging florescent lights will hide the defects, more so then orange peel. In fact when I see a textured walls and ceilings I start looking for the blems that someone is trying to cover up. I wouldn't texture it.

[cliffy]

Interesting thought. I never thought of that way. A drywall guy suggested that I texture it...for appearance reasons...as well as his claim that texturing adds strength. Whats your thoughts on the strength issue?

ps: I dont think they make enough fluorescent lighting to cover my flaws...

[Shack]

Why add another step.

Even with texture or knock down, you can end up seeing the tape bulges and other stuff. Just feather it out further and pole sand to knock down large area of ridges and use a knife to smack down the small areas.

Just remember, the nicer it is out their, the more time she will want to come spend time with you, hint, hint

[reddog]

 Originally Posted By: cliffy

Well, here we go again. I am off once again to the garage. I am going to try and widen the butt end joints as suggested above.

Here is another question. How do you do inside corners and keep them looking neat? I got the tool but they still look messy?

throw the corner tool away. Do the corners with a 6" knife, one side at a time. Dont do the other side of the corner, till the first one is dry. Probably too late now, as you a re close to being done, but when you approach a corner from an individual side at a time originally, it wont slow you down at all, as a corner will usually only take one coat per side, vs a flat or butt joint that will require two or three coats, depending on how good you are.

PS: I am going to do a light orange peel texture finish on everything....to help cover my work. Yeah, I know its a garage but I am trying to make the ultimate man's getaway from the warden. Once I am done with the mud/tape I have three 8-foot florescent lights to put up and a ceiling fan....and then its off to do the floor. I put tv cable and surround sound in the garage when they were building it last summer....wife thought I was crazy, the guys working on site gave me the secret man's nod of understanding......

if it were mine, I'd also skip the texture, but, I wouldnt be trying to hide anything. If you havent bought the flourescent lights yet, make sure you go with the HO fixture (HO= High Output) They will come on quickly and brightly in even the coldest of weather. You wont regret this, I guaranteee it.

[cliffy]

I already have one 8 foot HO light...and I like it a lot...that is why I am replacing the other three regular lights.

So, let me ask you guys this...why skip the texture? I thought it would add a nice finished look to the walls.

[cliffy]

 Originally Posted By: shackbash

Just remember, the nicer it is out their, the more time she will want to come spend time with you, hint, hint

I have drawn the line in the sand...The garage is my room...no wives allowed.....MAN MUST HAVE A SAFE HAVEN

[reddog]

 Originally Posted By: cliffy

I already have one 8 foot HO light...and I like it a lot...that is why I am replacing the other three regular lights.

So, let me ask you guys this...why skip the texture? I thought it would add a nice finished look to the walls.

It will, if you do a good job of texturing.

It adds no strength.

[cliffy]

Well, we will see how it looks when I am done tape/mudding....I might just pass on the texturing...who knows

Again, thanks to all for the helpful info. I will post pics once I am done. Thanks

Cliffy.

[Neighbor_guy]

If you dont know what you are doing orange peal or knock down can make you project look worse than it would have if you just had a little diy taping showing. If it is done well orange peal can hide everything. But it can be fickle.

Remember this is your "man cave" by the time you fill the walls with hunting, fishing, drinking, race car driving, barely dressed women, you can hide a lot of things.

[Roofer]

 Originally Posted By: Neighbor_guy

Remember this is your "man cave" by the time you fill the walls with hunting, fishing, drinking, race car driving, barely dressed women, you can hide a lot of things.

Exactly. I can't see much of my walls in the garage.

[cliffy]

Here is the funny thing. I have family members that do this stuff for a living. They have a large crew and there is a guy that does texturing that would do it as a side job for cash...so I have no worries that it would be done right. I should have just hired out the whole deal but I wanted to learn as I plan on finishing my basement, room by room over the next couple of years. Plus I only have about 50 bucks into this mess so far....pretty cheap I thought.

I hit it again today and did as other suggested and widen my seams and it looks a lot better. Just a light sanding to tapper in everything and it should be good to go. Part of me wants to texture and other half say just to paint it and move on to the lights, storage, surround sound...and flooring.

I am sorta neat freak when it comes to my stuff so I dont plan on putting to much up on the walls. The storage units that I have secure into the ceiling and crank up...and I have a few that hook to the ceiling and are stationary...I want to keep my garage as neat and clutter free as possible. I am in the market to find a few of those "welcome hunters" or welcome fishermen" beer banners to put over my work shop area. Gotta have some flavor...

Thanks again for all the suggestion and help. I Hope to post some pics when I get it finished.

Take care

Cliffy

[Shack]

 Originally Posted By: cliffy

 Originally Posted By: shackbash

Just remember, the nicer it is out their, the more time she will want to come spend time with you, hint, hint

I have drawn the line in the sand...The garage is my room...no wives allowed.....MAN MUST HAVE A SAFE HAVEN

Ya right!

She will have a potting desk/work bench on one side or the other by Aug...

Good luck with the rest. Sounds like you are on the home stretch.