Bad Legislation we need to act fast

[Muskiefool]

Hammer Handle this has to do with legislation the removes the commissioner's power from Pike management, this brand of resource management could easily be used to Ban spearing in MN or put a 24-40 slot on all MN lakes with 1 over 40, it could be used to do any number of things to take away a spear fisherman's current status, we need the DNR to do their jobs the ones they were hired for, if the Pike biologist for Northern Pike(whom happens to be a spear fisherman himself) says a 1 over 30 in lieu of 24-36 slot will not work on troubled lakes then states in detail why it will not work would you believe him ??, I do, he's one of the most well respected biologists in the country with many years of research into this very thing.

This rogue individual or few guys doesn't care about the fishery, they want to get fish no matter the cost to all of us that is the problem, selfishness, I talked to a well respected member of the spearfishing community at length about the loss of legislative power with the commissioner and his exact words were "Who's going to take care of our fish?", this is not a anti spearing push from Muskie anglers, it's a push from a few Anti Regulation Anti Muskie people that want revenge for the Long Range Muskie and Pike Plan.

"ALL" the members of the group that worked on this plan want you to have the ability to pursue your right to spear but with this sort of behind the back activity I'm afraid many of those non spearing interests will turn against you, I for one do not want that to happen, Muskie and Spearing guys can actually talk now without getting into fights over nothing, we need to work together to assure that we all have a fisherie that is strong and healthy.

[Hammer Handle]

Thanks for answering some questions.

I don't spear much, maybe about one season in 5 (if that), but my father spears a lot. We have a rule that if it is over a certain size, we don't spear.

If someone is going to spear a fish over a certain size, I can almost certainly guarantee that they will also angle and keep a fish over that size.

I rarely fish or spear on lakes over 400 acres. I know lakes with spearing on that do have a very healthy population of large northerns. I even had an "expert" come to one of these lakes and said the "northerns were overpopulated and stunted" and that "no large ones were in the lake" even though we caught them all the time. They trapped small northerns out and moved them to another lake...and were amazed at all the huge northerns they had in their trap. Now the lake is overpopulated with stunted sunfish...they should have left it alone....

I also know of a lake that is over 500 acres that has muskies in it now and spearing is now closed. Has the large northern count gone up? No, it has gone down...and quite a bit. It is probably due to the muskies competing for food.

Spearing gets a bad rap and people will throw up charts and this and that. But, I don't see the huge "damage" it does. If these lakes do open up for spearing, I doubt anything will change. But, if something does...even by one less fish...everyone will scream at the spearers.

Want to REALLY improve the lakes? More boat size retrictions. Close fishing in the dog days of summer (if we have really hot weather). More electronics and tackle restrictions. But, this won't change...for money drives the fishing industry.

[b1gf1sh1]

agree or disagree i will follow and back the rules laid down by the commissioner of the Minnesota DNR. i have to follow but will refuse to back rules laid down but some no mind hun-yuk with a bad haircut. and what's with his tie? sheesh.

[delcecchi]

If it will shut down spearing, I am all for it. We spend all this effort promoting Catch and Release, yet continue to allow spearing.

Many lakes have a slot these days. How does a spearer tell if the fish is in the immediate release slot?

Spearing is a relic of the past.

[Hammer Handle]

Easy for the spearer to watch slot limits. If it looks anywhere close...you don't spear. Or, just angle the fish and don't spear.

I think fishing is a relic of the past. Maybe we should close all fishing with hook. Netting is much safer for the fish.

[Nick Kuhn]

Hammer Handle I think it's all too easy to forget that mankind a gross overpopulation of the planet. When you think of other large animals, particularly carnivores, there are only a couple at most per square mile. Minnesota is not all that heavily populated and has 62 people per square mile, or about 30 times the number of other large animals. Couple that with the fact that people have tools that nature simply cannot defend against and you can see how resources can be depleted in a hurry.

I like numbers, Minnesota has about 2.56 million acres of fishable water, and roughly 1.4 million anglers. A lake can only sustain about 3 adult pike per acre, or roughly 7.68 million in the state. Taking 3-4 years to mature, if every angler kept just one pike a year, 4.2 million or more than half the existing pike population would be harvested before it could be replenished. If just 2 pike were harvested by each angler every year, than every adult pike would be harvested before it could be replenished. So your allotment of pike per season should be somewhere between 1 and 2 fish. The daily bag limit sure implies it's OK to harvest more than that though. Just be careful with the number of fish you commit to the table, there's plenty of other food in America.

[Black_Bay]

Just out of curiousity, where did you get those numbers on pike? Thanks

[Nick Kuhn]

The 3 per acre comes from the WI DNR. They tend to do population studies in terms of fish per acre. Maturity, acreage and number of anglers is the MN DNR.

For reference on other species, Bass tend to be around 8 adults per acre, Walleye in naturally reproducing bodies of water are around 4 adults per acre, whereas as on those maintained solely by stocking it's closer to 0.75 adults per acre. They try to manage the muskie population to be around 0.3 adults per acre, but it ranges from something like LCO at 0.05 adults per acre to some with nearly an adult per acre.

If you like casting distance an acre is the amount of water you could cover from an anchored boat if you could cast 118 feet.

[PDXFisher]

I think I read in the past, the MN DNR stocks to 1 Muskie per littoral acre, which is the area of a lake less than 15 feet in depth. On broodstock lakes (like Rebecca) they go up to 1.5 per littoral acre. On most lakes, that probably does work out to around .3 per acre.

[Nick Kuhn]

For Muskies

http://infotrek.er.usgs.gov/traverse/f?p=204:4:0::NO:::

For Walleyes

http://infotrek.er.usgs.gov/traverse/f?p=158:4:0::NO:::

They don't keep such a nice database for other species, but in reports for individual lakes you can usually find those numbers. The reports themselves are hard to come by though, I can never seem to find them again.

[Hammer Handle]

So, you are saying that if each fisherman in MN takes 3 pike a year...our fishing would be done in a few years...or did I read that wrong.

Sorry, that doesn't add up....

Or, are you just talking about large pike?

I agree large pike and muskies should be released. I also believe that we need to do more for our lakes. I also believe the huge and fast boats are damaging our shores and I don't have or use one. I also believe the person that releasing all of their fish and flys from spot to spot in their huge boat and fishes for large fish in the dog days of summer is damaged the large pike population just as much as the guy that keeps a large fish.

Why not support a bill that makes large fish harder to get...therefore more of a reward? Outlaw electronics and fish locators, that will work. But, money talks...and money is more important than the fish.

I have speared and have angled and kept some large fish. However, I bet most people catch more than me as I don't have a large boat and I use no electronics. Even though someone catch and releases all of their fish, they have killed more than me.

[Early Riser]

"Spearing is a relic of the past."

Actually there is something of a resurgence in spearing going on in Minnesota and other states as more people try to get away from all the commotion and electronics that are increasingly associated with angling these days. Interest in darkhouse spearing, decoys and spears is really on the upswing from what I have seen over the last few years. For those interested in learning more about the sport, there are plenty of people on FM who would be willing to help you out.

Hopefully spearers and anglers can continue to work together to improve habitat and good conservation practices.

I don't think there is higher moral ground between spearing and angling. Both account for dead fish and potential for wastse. It really comes down to how each is practiced.

[Nick Kuhn]

The reality is not everyone who is licensed even catches a pike, much less takes one home. But yes if everyone did that, then it would be the case (adult pike is defined as one over 20 inches in length). It's a hypothetical case though as there isn't a uniform distribution of both anglers and fish. The whole post was more of a point that as a single fisherman your impact is probably quite negligeable, but as a collective it becomes a very severe impact. Above I posted a link to Walleye populations in WI, look at the populations with relation to year, many lakes are indicating declining populations. The problem is very real.

[b1gf1sh1]

are these numbers,(just checking if i read and understood correctly) of fish stocked a result of what the lake will comfortably sustain? or just what they put in the lakes, to try and keep a healthy population?

[Nick Kuhn]

It's a guideline to keep a reasonable population. Many are well under the population they could sustain. Bone Lake for example used to have nearly 2 adult muskie per acre, which resulted in very few fish reaching 40 inches as there weren't enough 6 inch perch in the lake to feed that many muskies. It is one of the few examples of lakes that have been overstocked (it is a different animal as it receives fry and fingerling as it was Wisconsin's brood lake for a long time. They have since reduced it's stocking to less than half what it used to be).

The number stocked is typically the best cost/benefit solution for a lake, not necessarily the maximum it can support.

[Muskiefool]

"Hopefully spearers and anglers can continue to work together to improve habitat and good conservation practices."

"I don't think there is higher moral ground between spearing and angling. Both account for dead fish and potential for wastse. It really comes down to how each is practiced."

Early Riser that is a great post and I couldn't agree more, we need to work together to keep all of our outdoors activity's alive and well.

Kudos

John