Advice needed on inspecting a used camera

[2u77matt]

I rarely post, but sure enjoy the photos shared here. There are lots of photo forums out there, but this is my favorite because of the goodwill and friendliness.

Anyways, I'm FINALLY going to take the plunge into DSLRs. I'm considering buying a used Canon 20D. I have an appointment with the seller to inspect the camera before committing to anything. I want to make sure I'm checking all the right things and not getting something damaged or worn out. Here's my game plan. Please add your own tips or suggestions.

1.) Check body for evidence of abuse/damage.

2.) Check cumulative number of shutter clicks (Is this stored somewhere in the memory of the camera??) Otherwise, is there a good way to actually physically inspect the shutter?

3.) Cycle through the menus to make sure all the buttons work.

4.) Check for original box and Canon USA warranty, even if expired. I don't want a 2nd hand gray market camera.

5.) Inspect the lenses for fungus or scratches. Is this easy to do? I was thinking of bringing a flashlight to get a good look inside the lenses.

6.) Cycle the lenses through the full zoom range. Test the manual focus.

7.) Test the sensor for dust/scratches. I think I read somewhere to take a picture of a blue sky at high iso and then inspect the image with Photoshop, but I could use some suggestions here. I'm planning to take my laptop with card reader along, but I only have a jpg viewer. Is that OK?

8.) Take a few pictures just to make sure everything looks good.

I'm not entirely in tune with used values, but the person wants $650 for camera body, 18-55 kit lens, and accessories (battery, charger, CF, covers, strap, software, and manual). That seems reasonable to me if everything is in good shape, do you agree? I just don't want to have to do a $250 shutter replacement in 6 mos.

[finnbay]

I think you have most bases covered. Some of the Canon bodies do allow you to check shutter actuations through one of the menu functions. Many of the people here have had 20D's. I haven't so they would have to steer you on that one. Taking it for a test drive is the best idea of the bunch IMO. Taking a photo of the blue sky will tell you a lot, but don't limit yourself to that. Dust is not an insurmountable problem, but sensor scratches or dead pixels could be. Without a software program to open RAW, take the photos at the highest jpg quality. You can compare used camera prices by checking a company like KEH or BHPhoto used equipment. Good luck. You'll have a blast!

[Dbl]

First, welcome glad you are enjoying the board. Looks like you have done your homework and have most of the bases covered here.

#2 The is no accurate way to check the shutter count on a 20d, you will have to take a shot and if the shutter count has been on continuous you will get an idea of where it is at. If any work was done at Canon that will most likely be reset. Ask and hope for honesty.

#5 Just looking through the front and back of the lens should in decent light should show any evidence of fungus, rare of a camera and lens this new but..

#6 In addition to checking the zoom, check the focus at both minimum focus distance and infinity. Make sure the focus moves smoothly as well.

#7 To check the sensor I shoot at lower ISO's at f22 or so against a blue sky and out of focus. JPEG is fine for this, open in Photoshop and check for dust bunnies,(can be cleaned). You can do a high ISO shot with the lens cap on and a 15 sec shot or so to check for stuck or hot pixels as well. You will open the file in Photoshop and zoom in to 100% to help see any red, blue or white spots. You will have some on any sensor but look for something that is glaring. These are easily cloned out in Photoshop so don't get to worried about it. Sensors can be remapped at Canon as well, but they will be back.

Other things to look for are evidence of corrosion or water damage, in the lens, camera body, and battery compartment.

Check the self timer, shutter speeds, and how accurate is the meter. Sunny 16 rule of ISO of 100, f16, and 1/125s shutter speed. Check it against another camera or hand held meter. There is a difference in most any camera's meters, if it is close just learn what you need to keep it accurate. My Mark II always is set to +1/3 EC, my 20D is right on.

Looks to me like that price is right on based on the market for the 20D. Sounds like you have some fun ahead! Good luck and let us know how it works out. If you do buy we look forward to seeing some photos!

[Steve Foss]

Matt, welcome. Great to have you here.

Ken and Dan have given excellent advice on top of what you already were doing. I have nothing to add. Have fun with the new camera! And don't forget to share with us.

[WifeKidsandDog]

[quote That seems reasonable to me if everything is in good shape, do you agree? I just don't want to have to do a $250 shutter replacement in 6 mos.

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I'll dissent here and say that I think it's priced a bit high -- I'd pay that for a barely used mintier than mint 20D but other than that, probably not. Also, you could inspect the camera to the nth degree and it appear pristine but there is still no guarantee that the shutter couldn't fail the day after you bought it. Canon never said what the 20D shutter was rated for though many people have assumed it's 100K like the 30D. But there are 20Ds still going strong at 150K clicks and others that have failed at 20K. It's just one of those things that happen ...

So, rather than buy a used camera with the thought I may also have to replace the shutter for $275, I'd buy a new XTi kit for a few bucks less than $650 with a warranty.

Cheryl

[Dbl]

And I will respectfully disagree with Cheryl, I feel that is a good price for all that is included with the package. Spend time on the FM buy sell boards an excellent resource on current price trends, no not Fishing Minnesota and you will find that price ballpark for what is included.

I would buy a used 20D or over a new Rebel just for the 3200 ISO, better focus system, 20D has a higher performance shutter for around 100,000 cycles, the XT 50,000 rating. 20D will give you around 1,000 on a battery more with grip attatched, the XT around 600.

Slightly bigger and brighter viewfinder, higher flash sync speed, shorter shutter lag time, magnesium body top as opposed to plastic, faster 5fps as opposed to 3fps shooting, higher buffer 23 frames to 14 frames. A good 1 stop lower autofocus low light capability. Higher shutter speed, 1/8000s compared to 1/4000s, PC sync port for external flash or lights, none on XT. I could keep going, but for the money a used 20D over a new XT is an easy choice FOR ME.

That is why we have multiple opinions on these forums, the OP can filter through what is important to him and make a decision on what works best for his situation. Good luck again!

[Steve Foss]

Just a few things to add. No reason the OP can't talk the person down on price. Happens all the time and is no insult. It's even expected. You know: "Well, I'm seeing some used 20D/lens kits online for $580 to $600. You'll come down a bit, won't you?"

That type of thing.

DP Review shows the 20D rated to 50,000 shutters. Canon never did come out and say what its rating was, though they're very up-front that the 30D is rated to 100,000. I wore out a 20D in about 100,000 shutters.

It's not only acceptable to have varying points of view when it comes to photography, it's vital.

[WifeKidsandDog]

Quote:

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And I will respectfully disagree with Cheryl, I feel that is a good price for all that is included with the package. Spend time on the FM buy sell boards an excellent resource on current price trends,

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This might be one of the times that Nat Cam is a cheaper option -- they've been selling used 20Ds for less than the going rate on FM, though I haven't been on the Fred buy sell forum for a while. At least Nat Cam give you a 30 day return on used and i believe you can buy an extended warranty on used cameras with them.

I much prefer the xxD cameras but then again if I were buying first time, I'd be worried about spending the $650 on a used camera. I'd still consider the XTi. In fact, I'd probably just buy an Xti body and the new 18-55 kit lens with Image Stabilization -- that seems to be getting decent reviews.

Cheryl

[2u77matt]

Thank you everyone for your tips. They will definitely be helpful. I have done some searching on used prices, and yes, the $650 is on the higher end of reasonable. I will reserve my judgement until I see it in person and try to do some negotiating at that time. Cheryl, your point about buying a new model at a similar price is well taken. I've wrestled back and forth on that one and I'm to the point where if the 20D appears worn or the price doesn't come down I'll keep looking.

[MN Shutterbug]

There is a reputable online camera shop selling the 20D with battery and accessories, in excellent shape, for $569. I just bought a used 30D with battery and accessories, for $725. This camera is in excellent plus shape. I checked online prices of similar cameras first and this one was $75 less than the next lowest price, that I could find. Mine is like new.

[Paul]

Matt, I shoot daily with an XTi, you won't go wrong going that way either. I use a 17-85 IS USM carry around lense that seems to do most things for me. Good luck in your decision.

[Steve Foss]

While there are dueling features on the older 20D and newer XTi, it largely comes down to the decision whether to take a chance on used or relax into the warranty of new.

I got my current 30D nearly a year ago, before the 40D came out, for $900 including the battery grip. Only 3,500 actuations on it. Spotless. Those deals are out there.

I highly recommend avoiding hsolist for used cameras, unless the seller has a long track record and total positive ratings. When buying used, there are two established ways to go.

1. Buy from a reputable dealer like B&H (just one example). You'll pay a bit more than you might in a private deal, but you'll be assured of getting what you pay for.

2. Buy from someone you know personally and trust.

[2u77matt]

Well, way to go. I had my mind made up and now you guys and gals got me all confused! LOL. Actually it's good, because it's making me consider my choice carefully. I still think I prefer the 20D, but the XTI is growing on me. I've also found used 20D bodies for ~$500 from some of the reputable sources suggested. That might be a good way to go because it frees me from the kit lens. I'm most interested in using it for nature photography if that makes a difference between the XTI and 20D.

[Paul]

Matt, I don't have the best glass in the world, but I do have both a kit lens, and 2 beyond kit lenses. I have personally found it to be worth the extra money to not buy a kit lenses and add somehthing else to it instead what ever you decided to do. Don't get me wrong, nothing bad about a kit lense but you will probably end up getting a better one later anyway, might was well do it up front unless you are under budget restrictions. (been there done that)

[MARINERMAGNUM]

Matt,I liken buying a used camera to buying a used lawnmower,boat or ATV. None of the above have speedometers,but you can check certain areas for signs of high usage.

First and foremost,turn it upside down and check the small [tiny] torsion springs on the battery door. These are very fine wire and will show light rust if the camera has been exposed to too much moisture or improper storage.

Then check other areas that fingers or thumbs will rub with normal usage-check around the shutter button,and if the finish is "polished" you know it's had alot of use.

The accurate 9 point focus is a real plus on the 20,30,D's.

I have a 30D,and just replaced my backup rebel xT with a new 20D. There are still new,unfurbished,20Ds out there if you look. I found my new one for $575 from a reputable dealer. [body only]

Good luck and post the outcome!

[2u77matt]

Thank you everyone for your help. I'm now the proud owner of a 20D. I used Steve's advice and used low internet prices as a negotiating tool and got the outfit for $600. I haven't been this excited about a Christmas gift since I was 12 years old! I probably could have gotten it for a little less online, or upgraded the lens, but I liked the face to face transaction. The seller was very helpful, letting me put the camera through it's paces, teaching me how to use it, and pointing out good local places to shoot and the best photo shops in the area. (I recently moved to Madison, WI. I know . . . I'm a traitor. ).

Now, so much to learn!!! This is going to be great fun. I've already been pouring through the manual and trying things on the camera. I can see already this is going to be a very addictive and expensive hobby.

[Steve Foss]

Matt, that's great news.

Either way I knew you'd be pleased, and feel free to ask any questions about any of that kit or anything else about photography here.

Lots of Canon shooters with a wealth of experience on that brand, and the good Nikon shooters may not be able to offer Canon brand-specific knowledge but have lots of perspectives on techniques that are good no matter which camera you use.

Good luck with it, and of course the price for getting advice from us is posting your pictures here to share!

[finnbay]

Congratulations! Careful, though - this photography thing really gets to be addicting!