CRP Loss

[BLACKJACK]

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The tree cutting on WPA's and on some WMA's are to limit the perching area for owls, hawks and other raptors that use them to watch for ducklings and pheasant chicks.

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When was the last time you saw a hawk grab a pheasant? Its a crying shame what they're doing to some of those WPA's. Yes its good to run a fire thru them now and then to beat the brush back but they're cutting down a lot of good deer and pheasant habitat - at the very time when deer and pheasant hunters are crying for places to hunt. After they get done with some of them they're just grassy wastelands!!! Compare them to some of the wildlife areas where they've actually plant tree rows and corn food plots!! Guess where you'll see the hunters at!!!

[sparcebag]

I can see them cuttin the waterfowl production areas thats what they are designated for.But when they do the same to the Wildlife Management areas It irks me!The woods I hunt gets burnt,cut trees and seems to shrink every year.Its only a few acres but one of few around with woods and the perimiter loses a few trees every burn or management attempt!Their managing for ducks not for there stated reason WILDLIFE!

[Augusta]

I sometimes wonder why some people complain about the WMA's when they have ALL that private land to hunt....

[Pistol Pete]

One comment on ethanol and the high price of corn. What started it?? Not ethanol, it was the high price of GAS that created the demand for ethanol. And if you take away the tax incentives for ethanol make darn sure you do the same for big oil. If you do that I won't bark one bit about it, but untill then...check into how many tax breaks oil companies get. You will be unpleasantly po'd.

[sparcebag]

Unlike alot of people I can shoot out my back door.But the woods for archery is across the road and happens to be a WMA Ya see I dont drive too far to hunt with gas prices,and the farmers around home will give permission but for deer in a corn stubble field--Well I'm good but not that good.

[First Ice-Mike]

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Yes, I do want to support it for the sake of helping the pheasant population, but then again, when I drive around and see all the "NO Hunting/Trespassing" signs on the CRP land, I am hesitant to support it. I am also disheartned when I ask for permission to hunt the CRP, I am denied due to "only my family hunts there", or "I have it leased to someone", or " I don't let people hunt my land". As a taxpayer who is paying the farmer "rent" on this land in the form of a CRP payment, I get a little "rankled" by the fact that as a taxpayer, I've been paying this farmer to have his own private "hunting" preserve. Now many of you may disagree with that statment, but put in in perpective, we the taxpayers are "renting" this land through a lease type program, but we have no rights to the land even though we have it rented.

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You are using the term "rent" rather loosly. Why don't you just buy some CRP land and pay the taxes on it? - then you can hunt it all you want. Oh yeah - make sure to keep on top of all the weeds also - nothing "rankles" a farmer more than having a bunch of weed inoculant floating into their crop fields in the fall. CRP is just not that attractive for the farmer anymore - plus its meant to improve habitat, not for public hunting. You should be happy the guy is willing to take the financial hit to improve habitat, but you want to have your cake and eat it too. If you let any Tom, Dick, or Harry come onto private land CRP will be even less attractive. Sounds like a lot of hassle for a hunting preserve.

FI

[Pistol Pete]

I wonder what the price of gas would be if we did not add ethanol to our gas. In Minnesota it is added at 10%. How many gallons of extra gas would we be burning in this country without ethanol?? I don't know the numbers and it would be interesting to find out. Without ethanol in our gas how much would you be paying at the pump now?? More?? Less?? I would think without ethanol in our gas the demand for gas has to go up and so would the price. Maybe those tax incentives are there for a reason. Also look at all the revenue and jobs it makes in this country. If you are going to blame CRP loss on ethanol take another look. Put the blame where it belongs. GAS PRICES. That's just my take on it.

[Down2Earth]

I see both of your points. The farmer could be losing money by putting land into CRP and yes the people are paying taxes so should they have some right to hunt it? I think CRP hunting rights should be left to the owner of the land, but if it's not posted it should be open to the public. If the person owning the land doesn't want people out there then they can post the land or better yet put up signs that say no hunting without permission and then put their phone number on the sign so I can call them. I do that and most times if I'm not hunting or going to be hunting in the very near future I have no problem with someone hunting my CRP.

[Augusta]

I think there needs to be some clarification on the CRP progam. The CRP program is an "optional" conservation program for farmers,it was not intended for "habitat". If the CRP payment aka rental payment from the taxpayer was not sufficient, farmers would not be putting the land in the CRP program. Farmers are excellent at determining cash flows. Believe me, if the land did not "cash flow" with the CRP payment, and that cash flow includes, grass seeding, spraying for weeds, and yes taxes, you would not see the land enrolled in the CRP program. Farmers are not taking a "financial hit" on this land, if they were, they would sell the land. The land you see in the program, is considered "marginal" land, that is, land that is subject to wind/water erosion. This type of land "typically" produces a "marginal" crop on an average basis, hence, ten or fifteen years ago the land "cash flowed" better in the CRP program than actually farming the land. Now today, with today's cash prices and improved corn/soybean varieties, in some instances, not all mind you, the CRP payment does not "cash flow" as well as farming the land does. How do I know? I'm in the business of determining "cash flows" in agriculture. So go blow your smoke somewhere else.

Down2Earth:

You make a very good point. I am pushing very hard for some type of incentive program that would allow public hunting on the CRP. I know the nominated Secretary of Agriculture, Ed Schafer. I intend to put a "bug" in his ear. It can't hurt, but I NEED other sportsman to help me, I can't do it alone. I want to help the farmers as much as I want to help the sportsman.

[Down2Earth]

Augusta,

I would be more then willing to help with that bug. I would also like to make an exception to your rule. My Dad baught 40 acres of good farm land. He built a house on 5 acres of it and rented out the other 35 acres for one year. This year it is in CRP. He is getting paid less an acre then he was renting the land. Plus now he has to do the weed control, etc. But he loves to hunt so the trade-off is all worth it for him. But the remarks you posted are probably 90% of CRP.

[sparcebag]

D2E you been gone for a while? Here's a true sportspersons way to access private land,CRP acres! Show up in spring ask a farmer if help is needed to gather field stones,I did this to get stones for the ole girls butterfly garden!Farmer told no help needed just take them from exsisting pile,Same farmer I asked in summer if I could pull weeds on his CRP for fall access.I pulled lots a weeds!!Another farmer I asked to buy corn to feed deer, pheasants in my yard he gave me 5-6 bushels I pull weeds for him.Both farmers in summer I stop by and offer help,and they both get some frozen cleaned fish from me! Of course I live right here!But did anyone of the CRP complainers ever try this?? Just stop in spring,Summer and ask to do some chores for hunting permission? the farmer from my experience will probably say no help needed but come hunting season what a way to open your conversation to ask permission! Ya lots of people will say I have no time to do this.Then in my opinion ya may as well expect to only hunt WPAs & WMAs NO EFFORT NO RESULTS!

I dont leave trash on their property I pick it up,and that of others,So you might say I earn my access.I dont expect it!

[Down2Earth]

Sparcebag,

That is an excellent way. I know as a kid I would pick rock and bale hay for a guy over by Florida Sloughs. I told him all I wanted was to be able to hunt pheasants and ducks. He said no problem and also paid me $5 an hour.

[Augusta]

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Augusta,

I would be more then willing to help with that bug. I would also like to make an exception to your rule. My Dad baught 40 acres of good farm land. He built a house on 5 acres of it and rented out the other 35 acres for one year. This year it is in CRP. He is getting paid less an acre then he was renting the land. Plus now he has to do the weed control, etc. But he loves to hunt so the trade-off is all worth it for him. But the remarks you posted are probably 90% of CRP.

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Down2Earth:

Go back read both of our posts. I said the CRP was an optional program, in your post you say your dad has good farmland. I'm sure that land produces a better income than a CRP payment. Keep in mind, the CRP program was intended for "marginal" land, not productive land. I get the impression your father put the land in CRP simply for "hunting" land, which he has every right to do.

If anyone does not like the idea of public hunting on CRP land, than simply don't hunt it. Keep pulling your weeds. OR keep complaining about not being able to hunt as much as you like in ND.

It makes this task very difficult not only for myself, but DU, Pheasants Forever...ect..and others that are putting in tireless efforts so that ALL Minnesotans can have a place to hunt. It's unforunate that we have to tolerate some of the human gene pool that is polluted.

[Down2Earth]

Augusta,

I'm all for what you and others have done and are trying to do. Our CRP all has signs that say no hunting without permission and both my phone number and my dads. Just this past week my parents were on vacation and I was out in SD hunting. I guy called and said he was standing buy our sign and wondered if he could hunt deer. I told him to go right ahead, but I also tell everyone that asks that this permission is good for 1 day only. They need to ask evey time. The next day he called and asked if he and his kid could go out pheasant hunting. I said sure. I drive all over the state. I see all the no hunting signs on CRP land and besides deer hunting I very rarely see people hunting. It would really be nice if people put their numbers on the signs so others could call them and ask.

[Augusta]

Down2Earth,

I applaud you for what you and your family are doing. It's always nice to hear those kinds of stories, especially when it's about a father and his kid (family). It encourages our young people to get involved not only in the sport of hunting, but conservation as well. Our kids are our future and I want to encourage more of that. I would encourage everyone to join DU, Pheasants Forever, or some other group to encourage, and to help this resource flourish. We as sportsman HAVE to get involved!

[Hammer Handle]

Our family has a lot of land in CRP. The weeds have been bad with some dry years (thistles), so we have sprayed the land constantly. As far as payment, even though the land in "marginal", the $$ is less than even a moderate crop would be.

If CRP meant that it was now puplic domain for hunting...we would drop in a heartbeat. My father is retired and has no more animals on the farm...but loves seeing pheasants and turkeys and other wildlife near his home. We love to hunt, but do not hunt pheasants and only take 1 -2 turkeys (if we get a license) for this land is for our dad.

We are not in CRP for the money. We are in it for 1)less hassle (besides spraying) 2) We feel like we are doing something good for the wildlife. We have more pheasants and especially turkeys than we have ever had before.

[sparcebag]

Arent we losing enough CRP already? You want to force farmers to open THEIR land to a bunch of inconsiderate slobs (not all hunters but their out there)If you want to hunt it lease it or earn the right to access it,If it gets open to the public watch it go away along with the wildlife it supports! I'm not from the I'm special generation! So I dont expect to intrude on anothers property without permission or big brother backing me up!(more govt.rules)

[Augusta]

Hammer,

I read your post and completely understand where you are coming from. But keep in mind the CRP program is "optional", meaning it is the famers choice if he wants to enroll in the progarm or not. I get the impression that your father enrolled in the program because he was close to retirement age. Keep in mind also, I am trying to get "optional" NOT "mandatory" access to CRP. Meaning, the landowner, at his own discreation could allow public hunting. The model that I am thinking of is the ND PLOTS program. From what I understand, it is success story for both the the landowners and sportsman.

[Augusta]

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Arent we losing enough CRP already? You want to force farmers to open THEIR land to a bunch of inconsiderate slobs (not all hunters but their out there)If you want to hunt it lease it or earn the right to access it,If it gets open to the public watch it go away along with the wildlife it supports! I'm not from the I'm special generation! So I dont expect to intrude on anothers property without permission or big brother backing me up!(more govt.rules)

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No one is trying to "force" anyone to open their land to public hunting.

"Lease the land" Haven't we as taxpayers already done that by signing a lease agreement (CRP Contract)?

No you're not from the "I'm special generation", but you are from the generation who closed access to private land to future generations, remember when and why the tresspass laws were passed? Some of us are just trying to gain some of that access back that is, and I would like to hope, it would be beneficial to the sportsman and landowners alike.

Like I've said before, if you don't like the CRP program, don't sign up for it, if you don't like public hunting on CRP land, don't hunt it or allow public hunting on it.

[sparcebag]

There's a simplier solution for people who want others to cater to their whims BUY SOME LAND!! POST IT!!

[Down2Earth]

How about giving those that choose to open up their CRP to the public extra $$$$ per acre?

[Augusta]

That's exactly what is being suggested, some type of incentive to the farmer, either through tax breaks, more $$$, or whatever other ideas that anyone can think of. I keep referring to the ND PLOTS program, look into it yourself, you might be suprised as to how many landowners have signed up for it. I believe ND has now 1 million acres that are now open to public hunting due to this program. It just goes to show, that a program like this can work, if we get together and work on it.

[gonefishin11]

I would pay more for my pheasant stamp if I knew some of the money was going to support a program like PLOTS in MN.

[Augusta]

Here's an article describing the ND PLOTS Program

The Valley Outdoors

By Doug Leier

PLOTS Map - Opening Access

ND PLOTS maps are a great tool for open hunting areas

The State Game and Fish Department has had programs that cooperatively involve private landowners since the 1950s. But it’s been less than 10 years since the first inverted yellow triangular sign went up on tracts called Private Land Open to Sportsmen.

The PLOTS has its roots in legislation passed in 1997. The new law combined several different funds into one and removed restrictions on how the Game and Fish Department could use money earmarked for these funds. At the time, Game and Fish had about 36,000 acres in habitat, tree and food plots.

The legislation also enabled a new effort to provide public hunting access to grasslands in counties where pheasant densities were highest. The first on-the-ground projects under a new program called CRP cost-sharing debuted in 1998, with landowners enrolling about 24,000 acres of Conservation Reserve Program and adjacent acres.

In exchange for a cost-share of up to half the cost of the grass seed required to plant the former cropland to grass, the landowners signed agreements that allowed hunting access to those acres for the duration of the CRP contract.

Since then, the program has grown rapidly. This fall, hunters will find about 899,000 acres highlighted in the annual PLOTS guide. These acres are open to walking hunting access from Sept. 1 through April 1.

Understand that PLOTS is a voluntary program. Landowners decide whether they want to become involved. Over the years new programs have been designed to fit the needs of many different types of operations. The focus has expanded from just the primary pheasant counties, to all parts of the state, embracing a variety of hunting opportunities.

In 2006, the CRP cost-share program involves about 303,000 acres. The most popular program is Working Lands, which includes just over 415,000 acres. Under Working Lands, landowners can enroll part or all of their operations in short-term contracts.

A ND PLOTS land has about every species ND has to offer

Landowners signed up nearly a quarter-million acres into Working Lands in 2004, and most of those contracts were for two years. Cooperators apparently liked this option because more than 82 percent renewed their contracts after the 2005 hunting seasons. In addition, over the last two years hundreds of new tracts have been enrolled as well.

Habitat plots are longer-term agreements that involve idled land. They are also fairly popular and widespread, with about 137,000 acres this year.

The other PLOTS programs and their acres as of Sept 22, 2006, are: CREP/Coverlocks, 13,941; Native Forest, 14,223; Wetland Reserve Program incentive, 6,434; Beginning Farmer, 2,720; Tree Planting cost-share 3,177; and Food plots, 1,247.

Just recently, the Game and Fish Department completed its first Community Match contract, which allows local businesses, chambers of commerce, city councils and wildlife clubs to work with interested landowners and provide an incentive payment in addition to standard PLOTS payments. The tract in southern Dickey County is 635 acres and was made possible through the efforts of the local Pheasants Forever chapter, the landowner, and businesses and individuals from the community of Ellendale.

The money to fund the PLOTS program comes from hunters, and Game and Fish personal are tasked with implementing the programs in the hunters’ best interest.

PLOTS will continue to evolve, but all entities with a stake in the future of North Dakota’s rich hunting heritage understand that no single program or tract of land will by itself preserve this tradition.

Hunters must also continue to make a concerted effort to build relationships with private landowners, and work to maintain and enhance both state and federal public lands. More options will mean better chances that our experiences will match our expectations.

Across the nation more than 36 million acres are enrolled in CRP. Farmers and ranchers have planted grasses and trees in formerly cropped fields and along fragile riparian lands along rivers and streams slowing erosion and limiting harmful runoff into waterways and increasing water quality. After more than 20 years the benefits of CRP apply to an array of species, land and water.

A program such as CP 37 will probably never be known as widely as WD-40, but similar to the little yellow can, the uses and benefits of CP 37 are well beyond the financial incentive to landowners and benefit to ducks. It's another small part of the legacy which has made CRP so successful.

[Pistol Pete]

I think getting something like that PLOTS going is great. I do want you to realize something. Even though you say "we" the tax payers are renting the land we should be able to hunt it. Look at your laws. If land is rented permission to hunt it must be gotton from BOTH partys. The land owner and rhe land renter. More public hunting land is needed, do not get me wrong. I love to hunt, that is why I am choosing to put more of my land in CRP. I've been farming for over 30 years and my debt load is finally down where I can afford to put some land in CRP even though I can get more else where. Some people can't do that. Give the farmer an extra $$ to open up CRP to public hunting and you may be surprized as to how many acres will open up for everybody.