bad idler wheels

[DEADhead]

I was checking out my sled this afternoon while I was burning through some gas and noticed that I had a blown out rear idler wheel. The bearing must have seized and ripped away from the wheel sometime last spring. So I have a couple questions for you sledheads out there:

I have about 1500 miles or so on this sled (2004 T660), it will be on it's fifth season this year. How frequently do you replace your idler wheels? Do you just replace them when you hear them squeaking, or just go by set time interval? If you replace one of the idler wheels, do you just go and replace all of them at the same time since you have the track off (I assume you have to remove the track to replace them)? Or is it too costly? It looks like it would cost me about $250-$275 just for parts.

Here's probably the most disturbing question: aren't there supposed to be 4 idler wheels in the rear, two on the outside, two on the rear axle shaft? The seized bearing was on an inner idler wheel on the rear axle shaft and there was only one inner idler wheel on the shaft. I could have sworn that there should be two of them there. I looked at the microfiche online to look, but they only show one side of the track so I couldn't tell if there should be one or two on the inside. Thanks for any help.

[hanson]

Deadhead-

As far as how many wheels, etc should be in the skid, every manufacturer is different and it constantly changes (year to year, model to model, etc). Some sleds do have 3 idlers in the rear, some 2.

The good thing is, you don't have to pull the track to fix them, just the skid. On your very back idler wheels on each side, you should have a long bolt which is your track tension adjustment. Loosen the locking nut a 1/2 turn or so, then back the bolt all the way out on each side. This releases the tension on your track. You then have 2 bolts on each side right along the footboards, some mounting holes are above, some are underneath, depends on the model. Unbolt those 4 and with a little monkeying around, pushing, and shoving, you can pull the skid right out. Its then pretty easy to tackle idler wheels that aren't accessible when the skid is on the sled.

Getting the skid back in the sled is a different story. You can get it but lining up those 4 bolt holes is a pain in the butt.

[DEADhead]

thanks for the tip hanson, you just saved me some work, though I'll see how easy it is to get the skid back on. I looked at the microfiche again and it looks like there's only supposed to be three idler wheels on the rear. I was thinking that if there was supposed to be another idler wheel and it was missing, there still should have been remnants of an old bearing still on the axle.

[MN Mike]

Pull the skid out however you like but when you put it back in, tip the sled on its side ( hopefully you can do that fairly easy with a 660), put the front two bolts in but don't tighten them, then just simply rotate the skid into the tunnel and put the rear bolts in, very easy way to do it.

Mike

[MN Mike]

OOPS, forgot to mention I usually unhook the 2 main springs in the skidframe too, just take the front bolt out and let them hang loose until you have all 4 bolts in. Theres a little bit of tension on them but not a bunch.

Mike

[DEADhead]

thanks for tips, but the wet weight of my sled is around 700 lbs and change, ouch, and also tipping the sled on it's side for any duration of time is not good for the motor. I appreciate the help though!

[Macgyver55]

Before removing the whole suspension I'd check your service manual if I were you. You do not have to remove the entire skid frame to replace rear idlers on every model or brand. Some yes, but some I've done several that were able to be removed and replaced by simply releasing all the track tension and slipping them out.

[DEADhead]

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I've done several that were able to be removed and replaced by simply releasing all the track tension and slipping them out

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thanks, that's what I'm hoping for

[ChuckN]

A photo of the damaged area would really help if possible.

I have never experienced a rear axle idle wheel fail, but the center idlers fail all the time.

[DEADhead]

here's a pic of the damaged idler wheel. as you can the whole bearing "hub" tore away from the wheel.

I can't imagine that the repair should be that bad for this. I should be able to back the tension off the track, take one of the outer idler wheels off the drive shaft, back the shaft out enough to slide the new bearing and wheel on, and then put it back together. Does anyone know if these bearing are pressed on to the shaft? If they were, it would make the whole ordeal a tad bit more difficult...

[Macgyver55]

If the inner race spun on the shaft you may have some problems, it may have scored the axle shaft. Generally, the ones I've done are held in place by spacers tubes on the outside of the shaft. The bearings are a tight fit but not really a press fit. I haven't had to do mine yet, but the service manual for my Renegade says to remove the rear axle from the side opposite of the rear offset idler. Cat may be different but I'd sure give it a try before pulling out the whole skid.

[DEADhead]

yeah, the idler wheel bearing is held in place by a spacer tuber. It's on the opposite side of the wheel that was pictured.

The bearing didn't spin on the driveshaft, it's seated firmly on the driveshaft and didn't move. What you saw hanging on the shaft was the piece of pastic from the idler wheel, where the bearing was held in.

[Steve Bakken]

As for the three vs. four wheels, my ski-doo and my wife's cat both only have 3. Why is beyond me but someone in the engineering dept must have thought that this would be a great idea. Usually after about 2,000 miles, (give or take, based on driving conditions), the bearings start to fail one at a time. Some guys will check these each fall and replace the bad ones. I get sick of completely dis-assembling that skid frame every year, so I just replace all of the bearings at once every 2500 miles. It's peace of mind and they're relatively cheap (about 6 dollars apiece, if memory serves).

[ChuckN]

Owie. Get the tools out and you'll have to see what the damage is when it's apart. It doesn't look too difficult, IMO, follow the advice others have said..

I've got a fun project on my sled soon too...driveshaft replacement. I wish I had an idler problem...

[hanson]

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I've got a fun project on my sled soon too...driveshaft replacement. I wish I had an idler problem...

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I would wish I had an idler problem too.

I've done driveshaft bearings once on an Indy 500, and also replaced the track the following year. Not fun at all. I don't care how much a guy likes to wrench, that job sucks.