Montoya...

[lawdog]

Well, the haters will be calling it a fuel mileage win, but there aren't any astricks next to the names in the record books.

That's an Indy 500, Formula One victories and a NASCAR Cup victory. You guys still think this cat can't drive??????

[LMITOUT]

2 out of 36 races on the schedule involve road courses.....lets see some good runs on the real tracks that mean something and then we can hold him as high as the media and everyone else does. Until then, still nothing proven.

[JohnMickish]

To the doubters I say I rest my case, to those that say these races don't count, why do the teams spend so much money on them then? I bet if a red car would have won people wouldn't say they don't count.

[HOF#13]

Not a hater at all, but it was very much a fuel mileage race. Just ask Jamie McMurray and a few others if it was a fuel mileage race. In my opinion, the best car did not win the race yesterday. However, that happens alot, and it IS racing....the best car doesn't always win. Not trying to take anything away from Montoya's first win, but he was more lucky than good yesterday (and yes I think the dude can drive a racecar).

[harvey lee]

If he won, good for him. If it was a fuel mileage race then he may have been lucky. I have seen this guy make many rookie moves and be somewhat chippy.

When he wins races without being lucky and isnt quite so chippy, then I may feel he has more talent than I am giving him credit for. Yes, he can race well in othere cars, I just dont know if he is that good in a cup car quite yet.

I had him picked in the B pool but just couldn't pick him because of his lack of expierence.

[Harmonica Bear]

I thought it was great that I saw at least two times he tried to use his chrome horn for a pass, and twice he was immeadiately bumped back in retaliation (Don't try that stuff with me!). Nobody was giving him anything yesterday. He was lucky fuel-mileage-wise however.

[Meaney]

hahaha....so who even won yesterday...was there even a race

[LMITOUT]

Not really. Road courses don't count for much in my book. The meat of the schedule makes you turn left and left only. I'd rather be good or even average at the other 34 tracks than great at just two if you're running for the championship. The law of averages always wins!

[Meaney]

I do agree. I say the road course must go. When they are on I dont watch even a second of the race. I absolutely despise road courses and Montoya on top of it. I dont think he will ever account for anything...I mean, if he does good only at the road courses, then he is going nowhere.

[JohnMickish]

#42-Juan Pablo Montoya becomes the third driver to earn victories in F1, NASCAR and Indy cars, joining Mario Andretti and Dan Gurney.(ESPN.com)(6-25-2007)

Right, won't amount to much at all. Those other two guys where real slugs too.

[Meaney]

Mario who?

[lawdog]

Mnfishinguy these guys just won't give us our props as you and I have been telling them all year that Montoya is a hot shoe. Congrats to you on your excellent judging of his talent!

[eyepatrol]

I'm with LMITOUT, HL and Meany on this one. And I believe Meany's previous post was referring soley to JP's cup career, not his entire career in all three circuits....that is, if I read Meany's post correctly.

Obvious thing is.....you could see this type of discussion coming from the other side of the planet.

[harvey lee]

How does one earn a NASCAR victory in a all luck fuel race?

I will agree that he hasnt done to bad of a job as a rookie to date but, one cannot say he is the next superstar due to a fuel race finish. There have been other drivers who have lucked out and won a race or two but other than that have done nothing. I'm not saying he wont ever be good but one cannot justify that he is there yet due to one win on a road coarse win due to fuel mileage.

[HOF#13]

Hot shoe...or great fuel mileage??? More fuel mileage than a hot shoe on Sunday I believe. Ugh! I hate it when a race comes down to fuel mileage.

[lawdog]

Tell that to Harvick and McMurray, both of whom he drove past to get to that top spot at the end. Ya it was a fuel mileage win, but that is part of pit strategy, part of driver ability to conserve fuel, etc.He had to be in position to stay in front AND not run out of fuel. Wouldn't have done any good to not run out of fuel running 8th.

Give the guy some credit, its not like re was slow out there.

[LMITOUT]

Easy to turn good laps up front while the cars that were legitimately fast for the majority of the race were stuck in traffic due to it becoming a mileage race at the end. He just happened to gouge and kick his way through a few cars and ended up near the front after everyone cycled through for gas. It basically fell in his lap.

Hey, that's the way it happens sometimes and I realize that, but he's not the next coming yet. I'm not going to get up and start saying "I told you so" after a road course win of all places. That's stretching it a bit don't you think? Holy cow. That's like saying the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl after winning their first pre-season game....oh wait, people do say that in this state.

[harvey lee]

Jeff, I gave him some credit, I'm just not ready to say he is that good with his record to date.

[HOF#13]

Hey, I am giving the guy some credit. Winning a NASCAR race, no matter whether fuel mileage was an issue or not, is impressive. However, Harvick was basically told by his crew chief to not race him hard as it wasn't going to matter as Montoya did not have enough fuel to finish. Harvick was very content to run in 3rd thinking the top 2 didn't have enough gas. True, he did pass McMurray, although he tried to give it back to McMurray after going too hard into that tight corner before the start / finish line. I'm no big McMurray fan, but he ran a great race, had a great car, and certainly didn't deserve a 37th place finish because of fuel mileage. That's the part that I hate...A racecar driver shouldn't have to drive conservative to save fuel. The two things just don't fit together in my opinion.

[Meaney]

Quote:

---

I'm with LMITOUT, HL and Meany on this one. And I believe Meany's previous post was referring soley to JP's cup career, not his entire career in all three circuits....that is, if I read Meany's post correctly.

Obvious thing is.....you could see this type of discussion coming from the other side of the planet.

---

you sir..are correct!

[Sifty]

Quote:

---

Hey, I am giving the guy some credit.

Winning a NASCAR race, no matter whether fuel mileage was an issue or not, is impressive. However, Harvick was basically told by his crew chief to not race him hard as it wasn't going to matter as Montoya did not have enough fuel to finish. Harvick was very content to run in 3rd thinking the top 2 didn't have enough gas. True, he did pass McMurray, although he tried to give it back to McMurray after going too hard into that tight corner before the start / finish line. I'm no big McMurray fan, but he ran a great race, had a great car, and certainly didn't deserve a 37th place finish because of fuel mileage. That's the part that I hate...A racecar driver shouldn't have to drive conservative to save fuel. The two things just don't fit together in my opinion.

---

Well said Jason.

He did win a CUP race no matter how you look at it.

I'm not a big fan of the road race's but it is a NASCAR race.

Sifty

[JohnMickish]

Didn't Jr. win a Chicago race on Fuel a few years ago. A win is a win and if you noticed he was pulling away from the field (some of which where on a different fuel stategy) while saving gas! Winning a cup race is a tough deal and his team dosen't have the resources that DEI, Roush, Hendrick and JGR have so that makes it even harder.

Another way to look at it, if winning on a road course was easy and didn't count, how come only a select few can win on them? Johnson, Jr. and Kenseth don't have one, and two of them are cup champions.

Thanks Lawdog, I take that as a compliment and right back at you. You and I must have the only cable companies that broadcast racing outside the box (or oval for that matter).