Comments for the DNR

[J48jake]

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Could a solution be to not allow trapping on public land during the months of Oct-Dec unless it is done under the water or in muskrat dens ect. Then allow trapping after the hunting season is over. Then if you have your dog out on public land between the months of January-September then it is your own problem to watch out for your dog. Like I said I don't trap so maybe this isn't a viable situation. Just a thought.

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If they closed the trapping season from oct-dec trappers might as well sell all thier traps because that is the prime furbearer period. most trappers stop trapping well before the close date of mar-15 due to furbearers losing their winter pelt. this would be a very bad solution.

[BLACKJACK]

Thanks walleye. Sometimes you just have to consider the source and ignore it. Sitting behind the keyboard makes it easy to spout off. After awhile people judge you by the quality of your posts and just don't bother to read them if they're too far out or acidic.

[poutpro]

That is how I make mine dog proof. The trap is back so far in to box that a hunting dog couldn't get his neck into the trap. Even if one did get his nose far enough to hit the trigger, it would just get him on the snout, but not around the neck. Also, some people make a smaller round hole in the entrance, so that there is no way that a dog can get in, but coons and mink can go throuhg it. Let me see if I can find some pics to post.

[poutpro]

Here is an example of a dogproof cubbie set that I found online. The trap should be set back far enough in the bucket and a hole is cut in the front so that a dog can't get into it. Now this doesn't work for small dogs that could fit their body into that hole, but the hole is pretty small, so most hunting dogs would not get into it. Also, it is important to use scents that dogs aren't as attracted to. I couldn't find any pics of the boxes that just have the trap recessed back into the cubbie, but I will keep looking.

[PrairieHunter]

let's make those mandatory !

[walleye101]

Thank you poutpro,

Finally this thread has come around to folks looking for and suggesting practical solutions to a serious problem rather than pretending there is none.

Anyone setting a trap capable of killing has a responsibility to make every reasonable effort to ensure it is selective for the intended target. Unfortunately as long as it is legal to set unguarded baited cubbies on public land some folks will because they are quick and easy.

[PrairieHunter]

Nothing speaks stronger than money.

All conibear traps must be labeled with owner name, address, and phone number.

The trapper must be liable for his own actions on public land. If the trap kills a domestic animal - they must be liable. The trapper can pay the owner the actual replacement value of the hunting dog. ie - $1000 to $5000.

While this certainly does not provide emotional relief to the dog owner --- Money speaks louder to many than just an apology.

[gorrilla]

Poutpro, where did you find the commercially made dog proof cubbies? I have only seen the wooden version in a Fur Fish Game magazine.

Blackjack, I only wonder if your referring to yourself in the last post...

[Eric Wettschreck]

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The trapper must be liable for his own actions on public land. If the trap kills a domestic animal - they must be liable. The trapper can pay the owner the actual replacement value of the hunting dog. ie - $1000 to $5000.

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There are quite a few people out there that would disagree with this. The arguement could be made that the dog owner should have better control of his dog. It could be further argued that if a dog owner has 5000 dollars invested in his dog, and doesn't have it under control it shouldn't be on public land to start with. And further, it can be aruged that if a persons dog trips a legally set conniber on public land, the dog owner should reimburse the trapper for the amount the trapper would have made from that particular set.

There are many different sides to a story. Trappers and hunters own public land equally.

[slotlimit]

Hey Jake,

Thanks for the info. I didn't know how long the season was and someone posted trappers only get 3-6weeks. Being that January and Feb. are the coldest months of the year wouldn't the coats on the animals being trapped still be good. If so why not make the season 8 weeks long and trap during Jan-Feb. Like I said before I'm no expert it's just an interesting topic so why not learn about it from some of you who know what you're talking about.

[swampman]

racoons are usually in there dens in jan-feb unless you get a real warm spell.

[slotlimit]

Thanks Swampman, That puts an end to my suggestion.

[walleye101]

So boilerguy,

If I am running my foxhound, rabbit hound or coonhound and he is not in my sight, then he is "out of contol" and deserves what he gets?

[Eric Wettschreck]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there are many different ways to look at a particular issue. When people say there dog was injured on public land and a trapper owes him, for example, 2000 dollars that's just silly, especially if the trap set was legal. If the coon hound chases a coon into water on public land and then drowns, does the state owe him for the hound??? Or, if the GSP rips his belly open on barbed wire does the DNR have to pay for the dog?

We all need to remember that it's public land. Not just land for phesant hunters, or duck hunters, or trappers, or rabbit hunters. And being public means everyone is able to use it.

[walleye101]

Right, it is public land and everyone has the right to enjoy it. But what if the two legal activities are incompatable? Does the trapper have the right to exclusive use of the public land for the duration of the open trapping season by setting a baited cubbie?

Again let me say I am not opposed to trapping, I am a trapper, and I am not suggesting that 220's be banned, I own and use dozens of them. I am only suggeting that some common sense solutions be considered for regulating their use on public lands.

Forget about who is liable. It does no one any good when a hunting dog or pet gets whacked in one of these sets. It P...s off the hunter and everyone he tells about it. But worse yet it gives all trappers a bad name, and more bad PR is the last thing we need.

[poutpro]

No one said the trapper should get lone privleges to the land, just that hunters need to be aware and be cautious with their dogs.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Agree. I no longer trap, but I used to trap a bunch. I also did not grow up where I live now. It amazes me how a certain group of phesant hunters actually think the entire world should cater to them, especially on public land. I'm sure the same could be said for a percentage of any group.

[walleye101]

So, if I know there are baited cubbie sets on a piece of public land where I want to run some rabbits with my beagles, exactly how would I do that cautiously? My options are to not hunt that land, or risk a dead hound. And since it is a legal set how do I know the next spot I try won't have baited cubbies as well?

[gorrilla]

I think, as a pheasant hunter, grouse hunter, deer hunter, waterfowler, former(maybe future) trapper, etc - we need to be very careful how we go about this topic. All encompassing statements like "banning use" and "public land" are too broad and other considerations must be looked at.

Is there an allowable time frame?

Is southern MN public land different than central and northern???

Are certain uses of the 220 acceptable to dog owners (ie dog proof cubbies and baits)???

Are hound owners exposed to more hazards of loosing ones dog than other breeds??? Unfortunately yes, if you have a breed that is often out of eyesight, than yes it runs the risk of getting into more problems. Maybe they should be restricted to private areas during prime trapping weeks... (why isn't that discussed as well?)

SIDENOTE: I am often irritated by guys "attempting" to run hounds on land and the dog accidentally getting onto private posted land to run predators. Its so common nowadays and nobody ever considers the other predator hunters, cattle, deer, non target game, in fact I'm seeing more and more hound club contest throughout the state with less and less land to do it on...

--No, I don't think a 220 should await bird dogs or hounds 10 feet from the parking lot at the WMA...

But should 220's be BANNED from being used on the tons of miles of land for bobcats or fishers??? I don't think so.

I believe we can accomplish a lot of the same goals with intensive education and without taking away sportsmans rights, no matter what side of the fence you are on.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Yup. And there is a certain amount of common courtesy involved also.

Trappers should be aware of the fact they are on public land and set "Dog proof" cubbies whenever possible. Also, yes, 20 from the road is prolly a bad spot for a 220.

Hunters also should be aware of the fact there are probably traps set in this area. Know that going into the land. Maybe keep the dogs a little closer and keep a better eye on them in these areas.

I don't know about centeral and northern MN public land. I don't know why it would be any different except maybe southern land is more prairie and northern is more wooded. But that's just a hunch.

[poutpro]

Well, on Northern public a lot of trapping is done for marten and sets can be elevated in trees, so dogs cannot get into them.

[walleye101]

They certainly can be, and it is a good logical solution. It works for fisher as well. But it is not required, so it is generally not being done.

[poutpro]

I guess I don't know about marten and fisher trapping because they aren't present where I trap, but I thought that most of the sets were made in trees. Can anyone give some insight as to the most popular marten and fisher sets up North?

[walleye101]

Gorrila,

I will say it again. I am not suggesting 220's be banned. Yes, There are acceptable uses that pose very little risk to dogs. How about using baited cubbies only on private land where trapper has exclusive permission. There are other, more forgiving options (sets) to use on public land where the risk of other users is high. Dog proof cubbies, trail set 220's, foot hold cubbies, dirt holes, flat sets, etc. Plenty of options.

[walleye101]

By far the most popular and most effective set for martin and fisher is the baited cubbie guarded with a 220. They are effective in elevated sets, but most are set directly on the ground because they are more likely to pick up an occasional bobcat when set on gound level.