Tell the CO's to take a hike, legally...

[latz333]

I have a problem with the comparison of CO's and the gestapo. The last time I checked, the CO's do not take law abiding citizens out of the fish house and shoot them in the head just because they did not like the color of the fish house they were in.

If you are not breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about.

If you are breaking the law, you do!!!

[Guest]

Kevin,
You are correct to assume you will be given the benefit of the doubt. CO's should be able to ask for your hunting/fishing licenses without having to get permission. However, they ARE held to the same laws as other LEO's, and are NOT allowed to perform illegal searches, just for the heck of it. For some reason people assume that they are, but they're not. Bottom line, a few CO's give most all of them a bad rap. GOOD LUCK!!

Rusty

[MnSportsman]

Interesting topic...

It seems to me that....,

If you're not doing anything wrong, there's no worry.

If you're doing something wrong,Worry.

[if you are having some fun with someone; (other than fishing. )
or if you're "relieving" yourself & don't want to be "interrupted",
tell the CO when they knock, that "you're kinda busy" & will be out in a while.]

Otherwise, since your NAME/ADDRESS, or DRIVERS LICENSE, is on the shack. They will most likely "remember", that you were "Un-cooperative", & it may cause you some grief later. [ For example - Heading off the lake to go get some more of your favorite beverage, or bait.(possibly AFTER you've had some of those same beverages. ]

I don't like "Invasion of Privacy" either, but handling a situation with LE officers in a "mutually" respectful manner,
(even if it is just towards their position as an LE officer,regardless if they are acting like a jerk, or not.), is a better way to get the whole thing over with.

Just my thoughts, of course.

See ya out there!

------------------
Good Luck & Watch your bobber!
MnSportsman
Proud to be a member in good standing, of the
"Church of the Divine Wilderness"!

[Guest]

Well just like any other CO or law enforcement topic. A few bad apples ruin the bunch. I have quite a few stories of CO's overstepping their authority. I also have stories of CO's going above and beyond the call of duty to help and be nice. When you spend a lot of time in the woods or on the water you will indeed have similar experiences. I am sure that when this all unfolds and the existing laws are carefully examined, not much will have changed. Remember, you are your own best CO, police yourself and you have nothing to worry about.ScottS

[Crappie Killer]

I went to LOW on Sunday out of Wheeler's Point. I heard a knock on the door and the man said "Game Warden". We said come in (had nothing to hide anyway). The CO asked how the fishing was, gave us reports of others in the area, remarked how he liked my fishouse,... It was just a nice visit, just as if one of my buddies came over to talk. He never once asked to check licenses, see the fish we kept,... As he left, I said to my buddy "Don't you wish they were all that way?"
Maybe this court ruling will offer us some protection against the CO's that we often come across, the rude, bossy, arrogant ones that everybody seems to have a story about.
As for the CO I met on Sunday, I doubt the ruling has affected how he does his job one bit.
It's too bad so many of us have had bad experiences with Game Wardens. I used to work for the DNR when I was in college. The Number ONE problem they have is Public Relations. If more CO's, Wildlife Managers,... treated the common man with respect and decensy, the DNR wouldn't have such a nasty reputation.

[bigeyes]

I agree with perch jerker and kevin neve, crappie killer had a good point too about the law change having more effect on the unruly CO's. Other things being equal if I personally choose to spend my time and money fishing on a public lake,I would like the ability to tell the CO in a respectful manner that I would rather not be searched or if I feel like talking I can invite him in, I like not feeling like I have to submit to a rude CO though. I am for having our own choice and more freedom(it is getting harder and harder to find in this day and age).

[The Chemist]

When you get a CO that's friendly do him a favor as he/she has done for you. Get his badge and call his superior and tell them how much you appreciated his/her behavior. Sure thanking them personally is great but when it gets to a supervisor it means that much more.

[Guest]

I don't question whether or not any CO or LE is a good person or a bad person, I just question the power we have give CO in the search arena.

They always ask if they can search, we always consent. That makes it legal for them to look. Why, because we feel if we have nothing to hide, why not. We always let them search because we are scared that if we didn't they'd harass us. That there in is the greater danger, the succumbing to invasions of our privacy.

If there is no probable cause we really should refuse the search. A police officer cannot randomly stop people just to ask for their license or to look in their trunk.

We at times can have problems with Tribal CO's. If that happens to you when you are fishing around Devils Lake, ask them to call in the ND Game and Fish or Sheriff before they do anything.

CO's have a tough job and I respect the job they do. I just have a philosophical problem with random searching without probable cause.

As an example, DUI road blocks must stop every vehicle and check them. It cannot be random or profiled in anyway. Hey, back in my hometown in MN, the local boys once marked vehicles parked by bars and stopped them when they passed by.

Fun topic!!!!!!

[Guest]

Kevin,
As I had stated before, most people assume that the CO's have a right to randomly search people, so they just go ahead and let them search. However, that is not the case, and you are correct, they must have probable cause to search. By the way, a recent supreme court ruling, from I forget where, dealt DWI roadblocks a severe blow. I think most places have stopped using the practice, based on the ruling.

While I don't think the DNR should be able to search you without cause, I do believe they should be able to ask for your fishing license. Does anyone think they shouldn't be allowed to?

Good Luck!!
Rusty

[Jim W]

Best sollution!
Do what I do, fish in the open air, braving the elements while eliminating the shack factor! LOL!

Jim W

[Piker]

Perch Jerker, excellent use of that quote, it's one of my favorites, and one that is as old as our republic. Our country was founded on the principle of freedom and limited government. A country based on written law, a Constitution. That same constitution also provides people with the basic right protecting them against illegal search and seizure. A fish house is private property, no public officer has the right to violate private property without resonable cause. Period. I didn't write it, but I believe it. I also believe that our attitude is to blame for their imposing nature. The "if your not doing anything illegal" attitude is the wrong approach, but we tolerate loss of liberty in the name of law enforcement. The truth is it's not our place to decide. The United States is a republic and NOT a democracy. Therefore, it is not a "majority rule" government, we are governed, guided and protected by timeless document, The Constitution. That is why the DNR can not "knock and walk", and also why it is unconstitutional for the majority of the people in here to think they can pass their submissiveness on to the rest of us. Some will still disagree, I'm sure and think I'm an one-who-thinks-I-am-silly, but it's fact. Thanks. Go easy on me

[Piker]

I think that a DNR officer should be allowed to ask for your license.

[Guest]

I can agree to a point with just about everyone's opinions here so try to answer this similiar philo. question. A buddy of mine down the road lets me hunt deer everyyear on his farm using my treestand but he insists that he checks it out to make sure its set up right and I don't fall, break my neck, and sue him. Do I tell him to take a hike? As I understand public natural resources are the state's jurisdiction (property) and they have a right to regulate what, when, where, etc. goes on? Your house and your land is another matter.

[TUMBLEWEED]

Another scenereo, You are hunting in a state
forest. You are staying in a camping trailer.
They can't just come on in and take a look
around can they?? Some poacher type,might
have a hind quarter or two in a cooler or fridge???!!!!
This isn't gonna be the sky is falling stuff here.Face it,in most circumstances, the violaters will be observed
breaking some kind of law,BEFORE any searches
are conducted.Thats how almost all other law enforcement works. WE are all innocent before
guilty here in the U.S. Why should fish and game be any diferent??? You mean a known criminal on the street,should have more rights than I do when I pick up a jigging stick and head to the ice-house.No way.
Yeah its too bad that the average CO will have to follow the rules of his/her brotheren
officers... Do the homework(observation)and survailence and tips to get some kind of probable cause going.Something instead of just showing up and getting "lucky" Save the lucky part for when ya go fishin!!! My door is still unlocked for any of ya'll that think
I'm trying to hide something. The old way of things is just too intrusive to my liking is all........

[Guest]

I had a question,,What about the peeping tom co's? Can they peek into a window, or is this also a violation of privacy? Guess i have not heard any talk of that. I do like the idea that i will be treated as being law-abiding as i am. If most people are perfectly legall, why search everyone? Just never made sense to me.I dont know why people would get defensive of this law. It is nothing personal to co's. They do not work on a comission basis(not that i know of anyways). If they have proof, they will get their bust. Even when they do write a ticket, it is useless. Like a 50$ fine is going to stop anything? Make some real punishment and there would be much less worry about people violating fishing laws in an icehouse.

[Guest]

I think one point that people are missing is this: Though a fish house is called a "house", it is not your home. When you are fishing in a boat, the DNR has the right to stop and check for your license, not search the dump out of everything, including your person. A fish house is like your boat, and should be subject to the same rules. Just my thoughts.

GOOD LUCK,
Rusty

[Piker]

Now we're talking

[Guest]

My opinion on this topic is that I am happy that CO's will have to knock and ask permission to enter angling shelters. Now something that we have done for as long as I can remember, latch our doors shut from the inside, is no longer against the law.
Long live the 4th amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights.

[Piker]

We are definitely not a democracy. In a democracy, a majority rule could decide that you fish house is a publice eye-sore on the lake and burn it on the spot. "...and to the republic, for which it stands" So, don't believe what you hear all over the place. The only democracy we have is that which is provided in the framework of our Republic. Anyway, this will be my last political post in this forum. Everyone should know the difference between the two and learn for themselves. So just respect the private property rights of others and use common courtesy and the CO's are fine.

[Guest]

I'm fairly sure that we are both a republic AND a democracy being that the definition of a democracy is "government in which the supreme power is held by the people"- (Webster's) The 4th amend. states that "The right of the people to be secure in their person's, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrents shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the person's or things to be seized."(U.S. Constitution) What I believe this all comes down to is two things: one, your interpretation of the constitution, is it loose or tight and two, your definition of "unreasonable" and "house." Two interesting things though... one, it say's a WARRENT shall not be issued but upon probable cause, nothing about ENTERING on probable cause. And there is a mention of "paper's" being secure. Would you consider a fishing licence to be a "paper"?
That's it for my legal knowledge. Any politicians/lawyers out there have further knowledge? Great topic for debate while the ice thickens!!!

Tight lines!

[This message has been edited by Chuck (edited 01-11-2002).]

[Guest]

Sorry, posted response twice.

[This message has been edited by Chuck (edited 01-11-2002).]

[eyeballs]

I agree, I you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide. I also feel that an encounter with a CO should not feel like you spent the night in a cell with a guy named Bubba. I have met a few of those 'bad apples' and I must say it is a very unpleasent feeling beeing presumed guilty when you haven't done anything wrong.

[Guest]

My bad. I meant an unperfect/unpure democracy, otherwise all of my library's law/history/reference texts are sorely inaccurate. As far as I can find we elect representatives therefore the power of gov't comes from those of us that vote, however we are also guaranteed (in most cases)that the will of the majority cannot infringe on the rights of the minority (with the exception of certain times in our country's history). I sure that everyone can continue to agree to
disagree. How about religion while we wait for the fishing action to pick up?
Tight lines!

[This message has been edited by Chuck (edited 01-14-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Chuck (edited 01-14-2002).]

[Guest]

Sorry forefathers.............we gave up our freedoms for some fish. Oh yea, we also gave up 40+ percent in taxes, our right to own SUV's, smoke, eat fat foods, drink liquor, own guns, our right to pass on monies to our children, our right to REALLY own your own property free from DNR. . . . . where does it stop?

[Guest]

I to have been on the recieving end of a rammy law enforcement official. Then, had to drop a couple grand for a lawyer to get the bogus citation thrown out.

I don't know what the answer is. Maybe a cell phone call to your lawer for advice on the spot. I am still mad as hell about it a year later.