filling in muck area w/ beach sand?

[Bigbartguy]

My uncle has a small private pond that he would like to improve the shoreline/bottom on. The bottom is pretty heavy muck (maybe a foot). Any idea how we could accomplish this?

the DNR HSOforum says that beach sand will sink. what about piling on a bunch of gravel/rock and then using beach sand. any ideas?

He'd like to make a little area for the kids to play in.

[FlyingV]

My dad had shoreline property that was in a mucky bay. We had to rake the muck out year after year and found sand under it. The more swimming activity that happened, the sandier it got. It was hard to stay ahead of mother nature though.

If you put sand on top of the muck, I believe you'll have mucky sand. You'll need to get it out first.

You may want to see if there are leeches or blood suckers in there too. The kids won't find them pleasant.

Good luck!

[efgh]

The county I live in built a road across a muck slough, they first put down a fabric that looked like land scape fabric then 2 feet of sand, then 4 feet of clay, the engineer told me the fabric would keep the sand from entering the muck and they would end up with a floating road, the fabric and the sand on top would probley do the trick for you.

[DEADhead]

the fabric you are referring to is a geo-textile fabric. they come in several diiferent thicknesses. Brock-White is a reputable supplier of those type of products.

[JohnMickish]

Can you even legally do this to a swamp? I thought you pretty much had to leave things the way they are, or is a permit pretty easy to get?

[Cliff Wagenbach]

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Can you even legally do this to a swamp? I thought you pretty much had to leave things the way they are, or is a permit pretty easy to get?

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I would check with the DNR first before you start to do any type of filling or changing of a water system! Especially if it is connected to any public waters!

Undoing what you did will cost you a lot more money if you do not get the right permits!

Cliff

[Bigbartguy]

thanks for all of your responses. It's a private pond (that he actually dug out himself) so I dont think the DNR could say anything about it? It's man-made, unconnected to any other waterway and used for irrigation of his land. He dug until he hit springs.

but good point - still worth checking w/ the DNR. I cant imagine why they wouldnt issue a permit for this.

[JohnMickish]

Post back what the DNR says you can and can't do. I curious about this as my mom-in-law has a spring fed swampy area on her land too, only this one is natural.

[Hotspotter]

I'd like to echo Cliff's comments regarding the DNR permitting.

Be careful, and make sure you double and triple-check with them first on the permitting.

Even though the pond may be completely man-made, and on private property, any effect you might have (actual or perceived) on nearby or surrounding wetlands, lakes/rivers, or surrounding properties will be assessed. There's been many instances in the state where slight changes in drainage or shoreline have caused larger problems downstream or in connected wetlands in the same watershed.

Good luck, and let us know how you do!

Joel

[Surface Tension]

I've gotten a permit to do alter a lake shore. The process is very detailed with what info you provide along with what you can and can't do. Contact the DNR office and ask to talk to the area hydrologist. He'll give you all the info you need about getting a permit.

[DEADhead]

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It's a private pond (that he actually dug out himself) so I dont think the DNR could say anything about it?

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careful there, this gets into a gray-area. Even though the 'wetland' may be manmade, once it holds any water or a wetland indicator species, it may now be classified as a wetland and altering may now be required for permit. I know it sounds silly, but the law governing this was targeted for the "no net loss" wetland protection. I've had issues in the past working on mad-made structures on a DNR project that weren't even classified as wetland in inventory, but had an indicator species of a wetland (reed canary grass), so DNR Waters were being sticklers about it. Follow the advise of what the others mentioned, check with your area hydrologist. Here's a good link for finding all of the neccessary contacts for your project:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/permits/water/water_permit_contacts.html

as and FYI, the Division of Waters is so understaffed right now, that a permit request may take quite some time. I've personally had to wait well over 6 months in some cases for a permit to be approved by our DOW for an internal project.