camara for a beginner

[fishingmike0770]

I have been seeing some of the awesome pics people have been posting in here of waterfowl. I happen to live by a couple open water spots and would like to take pictures and get into the hobby. What would be a good camara to start out with and types of lenses and such. Go easy on me with the words because like i said, im a beginner. Im not looking to spend over $1000. Any help is appreciated.

[Steve Foss]

Hi Mike:

For $1,000, you'll be looking at either the 8 megapixel Canon Rebel XT ($710 where I shop online, body only) or the 6.1 megapixel Nikon D50 ($515 body only where I shop). The megapixel count isn't an issue unless you're making REALLY BIG PRINTS.

I shop at Canoga Camera. You can put the www in front and string the name together and put the usual thing on the end and that'll get you there.

Canon offers a full kit, including body, 18-200mm lens, 1 Gb memory card (memory cards don't come with DSLR cameras), bag and other stuff for $1,169. Nikon offers a similar kit, although with a smaller lens (18-70mm), for a bit over $900.

The kits are handy for a beginner. But you can do as well separately sometimes because they offer stuff you may not need, like the bag, etc.

If you want to do some telephoto work, you'll be looking for a zoom that goes out at least to 200mm. The Canon kit with the zoom covers your full range from 18-200 (wide angle to telephoto). If you go with the Nikon kit, you'd need to pick up one of their telephoto zooms on top of that.

If you get addicted, you'll probably eventually be looking at bigger glass and bigger money.

Either way you go, it's a blast. And we'll be here ready to answer questions as you get more and more involved.

[buzzsaw]

Hi Mike!

Quote:

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If you get addicted, you'll probably eventually be looking at bigger glass and bigger money.

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Steve could have actually used the word "When" you get addicted.... it's uncontrollable.

[Dbl]

And since I am the lone Pentax guy I have to make a plug. You can buy a Pentax DL with kit lens out the door shipped through the largest computer manufacturer in the world that begins with a "D" for $479. That leaves you some room to buy very nice Pentax glass.

I know most of the guys here use C*, and N* brands but give a serious look at Pentax. The DL/DS/DS2 uses the same sensor as the Nikon D50/D70. The view finder is one of the largest, brightest available on a DSLR, and it uses AA batteries which I find very useful if needed in a pinch (I do use rechargeables).

Pentax lenses have long held a reputation as some of the sharpest around if you stay away from the consumer end glass, which is really true of any of the manufacturers. They have used the same mounting system since I don't know when. One of the reasons I went with Pentax is I had some older manual focus glass from the 1970's that I can still use on my camera.

I have had mine for one year now and have not regretted my choice one bit. It has survived a five foot fall to a wood floor, been used in some horrible conditions and it is still working flawlessly.

Go to a store where you can hold each camera, see how it feels and how the buttons lay out for you. Do some research on the cameras you are interested in, and most of all make the plunge and start shooting photos. You will not make a bad choice with any of the big players in the market. Good luck.

[MN Shutterbug]

Actually, there is a place called Expresscameras on the net that is selling the Nikon D50 for $369. They don't say if this is new or reconditioned but it does come with a 1 year manufacturer warranty. Problem is, trying to find a good zoom lens with a good reputation, for an affordable price is next to impossible. I checked reviews on the Nikon 300mm zooms and none sound like that good of a lens. They are reputed to have a slow focus and anything beyond 200mm is reputed to be soft. They sell for anywhere from $119 to $259. I guess if a person had $2000 to blow on a lens, he might find a good one. Good luck. Maybe the people reviewing these lenses are too darned picky.

DBL, I would love to see some wildlife photos from your Pentax. I have always used Nikon SLR's and been happy with them but I do believe that a lot of the price for Nikons and Canons is due to the name.

[Steve Foss]

This can be confusing, but make sure that what you're getting in a DSLR has a basic level of accessories. Some "body only" sales that are suspiciously under retail are just that, nothing but the body. What you get retail for "body only" generally includes a battery, battery charger, usb cable and manual. Make sure those great deals specify that you get those things, or you may find youself ultimately paying more to add all the things you need to make the camera work and download images to your computer.

When you buy a top-brand DSLR, you are also paying for all the R&D that continues to go into keeping the top brands the top brands. In the relatively new world of DSLR, which is very fast moving and market oriented and a huge amount faster than the SLR 35mm film camera market used to be, I simply recommend to people who don't have a line of lenses from a single manufacturer to evaluate to top two or three brands and stick with the one among them that suits your needs.

There are plenty of brands out there that used to make kick a$$ film cameras and have made the digital transition, but if you don't have all those millions invested in R&D, you may not stay in the game.

[MN Shutterbug]

Steve, I went back to Express Cameras HSOforum and the ad does just say body. I then checked out their $579 package that includes a lens but does not include a batery, charger or USB cable. Thanks for bringing that to our attention. You are 1 sharp guy.

[Dbl]

X-tackleman I have not shot many wildlife photos with my camera because I don't have a lense that I feel does justice. I have a cheap 70-300 and a 1.4 TC that can be used but I don't feel the quality is up to par. If you are interested e-mail me and you can look at my gallery on line that contains mostly college baseball shots used with that lens, where the fine details are not as important, along with some wildlife shots.

Steve is right on the cheap deals, take the time to read the fine print and make sure you are getting a complete package. I know Steve is not referring to Pentax when he says to stick to the top 2 or 3 brands. They made some good announcements at the 2006 PMA that shows they have made the commitment to "stay in the game" with a new pro level DSLR this fall, and continued development of new glass.

I won't start a "brand wars" type of discussion because that is not what the original post is looking for, but take the time to look at what is out there, do some research and look at what features will work for you. Good luck with your search.

dbleitch at aol (Contact US Regarding This Word)

[jonny_redhorse]

I still consider myself a "beginner" as I've really only been into the more "serious" photography for not even a full year...I've made some tremendous advances in composition and have "maxed out"what I feel the camera I'm using now(fuji s5000 3.2 megs)..it's a decent camera but after really getting to know what is lacking in the camera in speed, etc,It's time for me to get another......I'm not getting a full blown SLR....I don't want to have to worry about cleaning the sensors changing lenses and whatever(fully realizing I'm limiting myself to the best potential of what I am capable or what I can do in regards to a nice photo)...I'm going with another fuji........"the s9000"....it's close to $500.00 but has a lens built right in(10.7 zoom)..a decent lens..not the greatest ,but then again ,I'm not a professional photographer that works free lance for National Geographic..lol ..trust me....I'll get some nice photos from that camera!...I do like the fact it has 9 megs also..I plan on some poster size prints that I can matte and frame and hang in my living room......and....be able to crop a photo without pixel degradation......no...it's not the "best" but then again my pocket book can't afford the "best" at this time!......(I'll pick up a teleconverter (2x) and some 1,2 and 3 dioptors for the macros).....the fuji s9000 will have to do

[MN Shutterbug]

After doing considerable research on DSLR's and more importantly lenses, I have decided to stick with my Sony 2.1. Sure, 8 X 10 is the maximum I'll ever be able to print satisfactorily and I had better compose the shot properly when I take the picture because I'll not be able to do any cropping afterwards. But if I was still shooting 35mm there wouldn't be any post processing done. Even when I was into wildlife photography more seriously, I never had enlargements made over 8 X 10, and then what I shot is what I got. Unless you paid big bucks to a professional lab there wouldn't be any cropping allowed. I just had to put up with contrasty photos due to the cheap paper that consumer labs use. At least with digital I still can print out better quality photos from my $200 printer than I ever got from discount store or 1 hour photo labs. Not only that, but if you look at my squirrel photos, I think they are just as saturated and sharp as photos taken with professional digital equipment. Not only that but I didn't do any post processing to these photos. Admittedly, there are many things I'll never be able to do with my Sony such as huge enlargements, which isn't important to me. The only things that really irritate me is the lag time between shots, slow focusing, which is why I still use manual focus occasionally, and when I set the camera down for a few minutes it automatically shuts down. Theh when I do see a critter and grab the camera, it takes so long for the camera to power up again that the subject is long gone. I have never tried birds in flight with my Sony but I am going to attempt that once the waterfowl starts coming back. I assume I'll have to use manual focus but it'll be interesting to see how they turn out. I just have too much invested in this outfit to just dump it on hsolist for 1/3 of what I have spent and then turn around and buy a DSLR kit for a few hundred dollars more, just to be disappointed.

I'm afraid I would need to invest a couple thousand to get a zoom lens that would make me happy. I would rather spend that on fishing equipment, and even then my wife would kick me out of the house.

[buzzsaw]

To each their own X... good luck.

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I have never tried birds in flight with my Sony but I am going to attempt that once the waterfowl starts coming back. I assume I'll have to use manual focus but it'll be interesting to see how they turn out

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I would say you'll need a DSLR to get these shots.... but the good news is you can always look at our pictures.

[fishingmike0770]

Thanks for all the replies so quickly. As i expected, im not gonna get out of this without spending a pretty penny. Im new to the terms so what is DSLR? and R&D? Like i said, thanks a bunch for the little insight into the photography world. Ive got some killer spots that i can get some sweet waterfowl picks as long as i get a camera. Im gonna be heading up to Ely during the weekend of March 17 to do a college visit at the community college up there and catch some fish. Who knows, maybe ill run into somebody from here up there?

What kind of lens would you consider to be a "good lens" for shooting waterfowl because I think that will be where I focus the most attention on.

For different types of cameras, do only Canon lenses work on Canon cameras and such, or is a mix and match type thing. Some work here but not there?

[Steve Foss]

Hey Mike:

R&D is research and development. DSLR is digital single lens reflex camera. The film cameras are simply called single lense reflex (unless they are the point-and-shoot compact variety.)

Lenses made by camera manufacturers generally only fit those cameras. When you buy lenses from non-camera manufacturers like Sigma or Tamron, they're made to fit specific camera brands. So if you buy a Tamron 70-300mm and you have a Nikon, your Tamron won't fit on a Canon.

Now, as to the lens, there are people who will tell you you have to spend the big money on fine glass ($1,000 to $6,000) to get good pictures of birds, including ducks in flight, but that's not true. You may eventually get bitten by the bug, but you don't know yet for sure if that is the case, and in any event, few people have the jing to throw around unless they're sure they're in it for the long haul.

The big camera manufacturers make "consumer" grade and "professional" grade lenses. For Canon, if it doesn't have an "L" in it, it's consumer grade. You can get excellent quality out of consumer grade lenses, but most of them operate more slowly, aren't built as strongly and don't offer as much sharpenss, contrast and rich color as professional glass.

If you were to buy the aforementioned Canon kit with the 18-200mm, that'd get you started just fine on ducks in flight, and if you're a good woodsman and quiet and patient, you'll do well with 200mm on other creatures, too. Tamron makes a 70-300mm for about $150 that I shot with before I upgraded. It's autofocus was a bit slow, but it took good pics.

A note about the entry level Canon and Nikon DSLRs. Their digital sensors are smaller then the top models, and because of that, there's a multiplier factor when you're figuring the equivalent to 35mm (the film size standard for decades). Without getting into the details, which are confusing and not that important, with the Canon, you multiply the lens's mm rating by 1.6 to get a more accurate assessment of lens power. For Nikon, it's 1.5. So your 200mm is actually multiplied by 1.6 (320mm) or 1.5 (300mm) for those brands. The Tamron 70-300, then, would max out at 480mm (Canon) or 450mm (Nikon). That conversion factor can be quite helpful for telephoto shooters.

Never know WHO you're going to see when you swing through Ely, though it looks like I'm done fishing for the winter.

[island guy]

Hey Mike

These guys give good advice. I've learned a lot reading this thread and am still learning. I've been into shooting a long time but just did the digital jump this year. I've shot with a high end film SLR for years. It still takes fantastic pics. That said you just can't get the same shots as you can with a digital. Nor can you do as much with film. If you want to get pics like the birds in flight, you're not going to get them with anything short of a DSLR. At least I can't. Speaking as a beginner myself, even a high end DSLR takes practice, practice, practice. I still go to bed at night reading the manual and other advice literature.

See if there are any camera clubs or classes in your area. Sign up and get to know people who are into it. You never know what kind of a deal you will get. At the least you will learn a ton! I joined a camera club in our area and those guys really go all out in helping you out.

[fishingmike0770]

I have been doin some research on the net and going to stores. So far, im leaning more towards a Nikon D50. It seems to be a little more in my price range and from the people ive talked to, it is a great camara for someone just starting to take up photography. Ive found some pretty killer deals on the internet but am still searching for one with just what i need and the right price.

[Steve Foss]

Good work, Mike. As you can tell from my signature, I'm a Canon fella, but the D50 is a fine camera. You will like it.