Studding a Track

[iffwalleyes]

How difficult is it to stud a track? Also what type of studs do you guys run. Where is a good place to order from.

[sledhead]

not hard, takes a while depending how many studs your putting in. put 144 picks in an Apex today and took about 2 hours. If your trail riding and out fishin carbide tipped studs. Also does your machine have Tunnel protector those are required to run picks. Size of the stud is determined buy the luge size of the track. ex: 1.25 inch track reqires a minimum stud length of 1.40 inches. You can pick them up at most sled dealers they usually have them in stock and dont for get the stud drill bit

[PierBridge]

What is the engine size?

What type of riding do you plan on doing Aggressive trail riding? if so you may want to go with 144.

I wouldn't go with less the 96 studs unless all your going to do is pull a fishouse out on the Lake.

[ccarlson]

I would do the tunnel protector as a good precaution whether you are using picks or studs.

One trick I've seen used is to use an appropriate sized philips screw driver heated with a torch to then push through the track. The heat keeps the track material from freying.

To prevent track damage from stud tear out, the number of studs should be proportionate to the engine size. A smaller fan cooled engine can get by with as little as 39 studs. A big liquid cooled will need the higher numbers mentioned. Too few studs on a big engine and the torque will tear the stud out and damage the track.

ccarlson

[iffwalleyes]

Sled is a ZRT 600. I mostly would be on lakes with it pulling my otter.

[warrior]

Purchase some top gun studs 5/8 push thru and dont forget Aluminum backer plates with nyloc nuts. buy a track tool use a pattern plate and go to town Very Easy! For your application 96 studs should be just fine. You should exspect to pay somewhere around $1.75 to $1.90 for a complete stud,backer & nut. Dont overtighten we use an airwrench w/torque setting of about 90lbs. Any other questions just contact me. I would be glad to help.

[H20fowlr]

I used to manage some of Ski Doo's factory sleds in the USSA Ice racing Series in the early 90's and studded a lot of tracks. There have been some good suggestions on here.

1) Liquid cooled sleds with a heat exchanger in your tunnel it would be very risky not installing tunnel protectors.

2.)96/144... A 600 has a decent amount of torque and you are pulling a sled. My guess is you will want a more picks than less

3) installing the picks is easy. I wouldn't suggest the heated up phiilips screwdriver as the heat impacts the kevlar in the area aound the hole. It makes it more brittle and the stud can tear the hole. This won't happen immediately but it increases the likelhood a couple of years down the road. By the bit, it is a fluted type and aren't that expensive. By a T-handle that is threaded, put it through the hole, attach the T-nut and pull it through the hole, unscrew the t-handle. I used to use blue loc tite as this saved us from retightening them all the time. If you do use loc tite, DO NOT USE the red!!! The red will not free up and you will end up having the t-nut spin in the track if you try to remove it. Use a deep well socket and tighten them up. either by hand or air

Pretty simple. Your pattern is your choice. Usually make it a little different in adjacent rows. Maybe 5 in one row and 4 in the next.

Remember studs hitting your heat exchanger will puncture it and you will lose you engine coolant. It doesn't take long for the walls of 600 engine to stick after it can't transfer the heat out of the cylinders. These aren't big cast iron blocks with lots of margin. These are tight clearance, thin walled, Aluminum castings with inserts that will "stick" if there is no coolant. So install the tunnel protectors.

Good Luck

H20fowlr

[ccarlson]

H2Ofowlr,

Thanks for the info on the heated philips which I posted about. I would hate to recommend something that would damage someone's track.

I just bought myself a new used sled last night from my brother in law who showed me this method and he has never had a problem but who's to say it won't start at some point.

The sled I just bought is a '98 Indy XC 700 with 144 studs. These were put in right after it was new using this method and there is no sign of any hardening or damage after 7-8 years use. But again, sounds best to use the tool rather than the heat. We actually thought it would be better to use the heat because one of the main problems with studs is tear out or the track starting to fray.

Thanks again, I'm off to try that new sled this weekend up north. I've always ran fan cooled sleds before so this thing is quite the step up in power for me.

ccarlson

[iffwalleyes]

Ok so now that I have been told how. I think I would probably go with 144 studs. The next question what brand do you recommend and finally where should I get the supplies and tools to do the job? H2Ofowlr where would you recommend I find the speciality tools that you mention? Also where is a good place for tunnel protectors?

[reddogadventures]

You've probably got the track studded by now but I thought I'd throw my two cents worth in anyway just in case. I don't have as much experience as H20Fowler but I've done several.

Your sled has lots of power so I'd use 144 studs. You might want to check out catdeals.com for studs. I just bought two Stud Boy brand complete sets from them at a very reasonalbe price. The set includes stud, backer, nuts, and instructions. Be sure to buy a template that fits your sled. The cutting tool is a must. I use a white out pen for marking the holes. A paint stick pen works too but I've found the white pens to be best.

Carbide tips work well and are worth the extra money. I have used both Woody's brand as well as Stud Boy. Both are good. I've got a 98 600 ZR with Woody's in it that have really held up nice. I also have three F7's with studs. Studs are a must at my house.

I use a Rec Lift for getting the sled up off the floor. It gets my sleds off the floor up to 24". Be sure to secure the sled to prevent it from falling or sliding around. After I have everything secure, I remove the belt, pull the two bolts out of the tunnel that hold the suspension to the tunnel. You probably have carbs so I would highly recommend that you either drain the gas from the tank or if you have a shut off valve, close off the gas so it doesn't go into the engine. That situation would only happen if a needle is stuck open. This has happened to friends of mine and has caused liquid lock...a very bad situation that occurs when the gas tank is left higher than the engine for long periods of time. Gas flows into the carb, needle is stuck open, gas continues to flow into engine, fills cylinder(s), etc., you get the picture.If your sled is EFI, you don't have to worry about it.

Once you have the sled up in the air with the track dropped, use the template that matches your sled, mark out all the holes, drill holes. When I'm putting the studs into the track, I use slight hand pressure next to the hole as I'm pushing the studs through. It is just enough to help keep the hole open as I'm pushing the stud through.

Once I have all the studs in, backer plates on and nuts hand started, I use my air wrench and an allen wrench to set the nuts. I set my compressor at about 90-95lbs. and that usually sets the studs nice and flush with the track surface. Do check with your dealer to see if you need tunnel protectors. The first one will take several hours but after you do one, it can be done in a couple.

Good luck and be sure to hold on tight when you squeeze that ZRT with your new studs in it. It's going to set you back in your seat!

[H20fowlr]

It is always a good Idea to shut the fuel off. All that has to happen is the needle valves need to leak. Raising the rear end and trailering are two things that can create an issue.

The track can be loosend for easiier turning as well. You might need to run your track a little tighter as now you will be putting a higher sideload on the Hyfax. You can adjust your track by loosening the rear idler wheels, and loosening the track tension screws in the back of the suspension. You can use a fish scale to measure how tight your track is. While it is lifted in the air, attach the fish scale in the middle of the track and pull it away from the suspension. When you get an easily read gap, identify how much you had to pull it to make that gap.(for example I moved it 2inches from normal while pulling it 20lbs.) When you tighten it back up get to the same tension. You will also want to make sure that your track is true to the suspension. This you can tell by how it rides along the slides. A very good setting that usually works without further adjustment, is spin the track with the engine after you are all done. Measure the distance from the outside of the idler wheels to the outside of the track. Adjust the tension screws to make that equal.(Tighten the side that has the largest amount of distance from the idler.)

Sorry for not replying sooner, I have been traveling.

[benelli_dude2002]

The last 2 sleds I had were studded. A 800 ZRT with 192, I did find out on frozen ground is where I got the best traction cuz i stood it up on end a few times but since I do a lot of lake running here on LOTW they are a big benefit. THe other sled was a 670 MXZ with 144 studs. My dad had a 800 pantera with 96 and that was plenty and now with his new T660 touring sled with 96 is plenty. I think with 192 I had like 13-14 scratch lines but I was more into performance back then, did some racing and speed runs but now I am older and have a family I am sledless right now its getting the best of me especially when I live a block away from the dealer. Dealer friend told me that Arctic Cat has 80% new models for 2007, a 1000 twin to compete with Doo's 1000 and possibly a bigger 4 stroke. Wait and see I guess. But I think for all round riding 96 studs is good but you are a more of an agressive rider then add more. I had one friend put 288 on his 98 mach 1 670 and he had to lean forward to keep his front end down on takeoff but that sled had awesome hook up with all that metal in his track. Good luck! Brian

[lipp_ripper]

I'm not sure why everyone loves studs. I'm by no means an expert but I know what I like. I recently purchased a XC700 with 144 studs and I didn't like the way it handled. It wanted to go in a straight line. Part of the fun for me is to fishtail the sled every once in a while. I pulled all the studs out and the machine rides like a dream. I realize that if your pulling a large fish house you may need traction, but a portable house is not that heavy. I know I'm going to get ripped by the performance people out there but I don't like studs. The do alot of damage to the garage floor, trailers and public roads. My 700 has enough snap to straighten my arms whenever I put my thumb into it.

All right guys, let me have it. I know I'm going to get ripped.

By the way, I have coffee can of carbite studs with backers sitting around doing nothing.

[benelli_dude2002]

First off I am not going to rip into you but I will say this. I know a friend of mine who was seen by aircraft whether it was local law or DNR but they got him for speeding and careless driving. He went around the next turn and did one of these " fishtales " and that was were the careless driving fine came in. So you just never know who is out there if they are hiding in the bush or watching from above. But then again I know how it is fun to play around a little bit. When I hunt on the lake in the Ontario side ( the season runs til Dec.15 ) there hardly any snow maybe enough to keep everything cool but as far as traction thats where studs were nice. And I am usually running the lake late in the year. But everyone is different. I know lotsa guys who dont run studs. Its voids the warranty on the track and tunnel I believe and I seen where guys lost all their coolant because of studs even when they had tunnel protectors. I've been lucky when I had the MXZ, I had lost 2 studs and never lost any coolant but it did blow up on me resulting a 26 mile tow behind my dad's 800 Pantera. I think the mechanic told me there was some dirt in that plugged something up. I hope I didnt rip into you. Happy sledding! Brian

[lipp_ripper]

I would be willing to bet that the "fishtale" was not the reason for the ticket. It was "as long as I'm writing a ticket" add on. There are more and more tickets being passed out for speeding these days.

I believe that studs have a place for work machines. My thing is that they really are not needed on a trail riding machine. People will say that they can stop quicker, I say to that, you shouldn't be going that fast. Call me old fashion, but I enjoy 20 to 30 mph tours thru the woods. I don't like meeting "Cowboys" coming the other way who think they are racing to the next trail crossing.

OK....I'm done. I just needed to get that off my chest.

[benelli_dude2002]

I would have to agree with you on that ticket as far as adding. I too enjoy a nice ride through the woods and I had a couple close calls last winter down by Upper Red Lake where a few guys were ripping around the turns way faster that what they should have been and most likely not thinking the possibility of other sleds going the opposite direction. BUt the next sled i get will have a longer track and taller lug like 1 1/4 inch for running the lake. I do miss that longer track for deeper snow. I had a 93 Ext with a longer track and i rode a sled just like it that same year but with the standard length track and it was quite a bit more noticable as far as tracion on the trails resulting a more " squirrely " ride. Finally getting some snow up here but not too sure how the trails, got an uncle coming out from Montana ( he grew up around here) for a week of riding. Of course he has a couple mountain sleds with 2 inch lugs but he had a blast last year and put on like 700 miles in 5 days. Hope I didnt push any wrong buttons on anyone. Happy sledding! Brian

[iffwalleyes]

Ok my original question was how to stud a track not whether I should do it or not. I don't want a debate started here on if is should or shouldn't be done. I don't want a sled that fishtales I don't plan to used it for alot of trail riding as I said it's purpose is for pulling my fish house as I have stated in previous posts. I don't want the sled sliding all over the place when pulling my house. I have to much invested in equipment with the house and equipment in inside to be screwing around making my sled slide all over the place.

[satnu]

Quote:

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Ok my original question was how to stud a track not whether I should do it or not. I don't want a debate started here on if is should or shouldn't be done. I don't want a sled that fishtales I don't plan to used it for alot of trail riding as I said it's purpose is for pulling my fish house as I have stated in previous posts. I don't want the sled sliding all over the place when pulling my house. I have to much invested in equipment with the house and equipment in inside to be screwing around making my sled slide all over the place.

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LOOK HERE!!!!!!!!

[iffwalleyes]

Thanks Satnu that helps alot.