Access to lake with no public access?

[fishtrap3]

Ok I don't have rule book so I will ask here before I go get one. Can one enter a lake that is surounded by private property at a bridge over a creek? Ice would be no more than 5 feet or so off road. Probably less but I will say 5 to be safe. And can land owner leagly fence over a creek next to a bridge? I know I should contact DNR but thought I would get opinions on what everyone here thinks. Anyone around Lonsdale area probably knows which lake I am talking about.

[Ice Hole]

I know exactly which lake you are talking about. I am no expert on the legal issues, but from what I do understand, I believe it is perfectly legal to access the lake from this point, as the waterway runs underneath the bridge and is navigable. I also don't believe the landowner has legal right to put a fence up across the waterway. However, I think it would be wise to contact a DNR official to get a ruling or report this to them, as I know people who have tried ice fishing on this lake and have been threatened by the landowner.

[Ice Hole]

One other thing......if you do contact a DNR official, please post and let us know the response, as I'd be very interested.

[Northlander]

If you have to park or walk on private property to get to the water no its not legal. Nobody owns the water of course but someone may own the land it runs threw.

[Ice Hole]

But what if the bridge is a public road that crosses the creek?

[Nutty Fisherman]

For the most part water is public but the land it is on is not. As far as the bridge crossing a creek that should be a public right of way at least 16 feet from center of road, but as others said contact the DNR and let us know Thanks

[Walterwontfalter]

I'd also be very interested on what the DNR says. There are a couple lakes in my area where this information would help.

[almosthaddabite]

Most roads have a right of way, this will be determined by township, county or state right of way laws. Also every body of water has a high water mark, usually where vegetation transitions. This should allow you to enter the lake.

I would think he could have a fence across the creek to contain cattle, but can't keep you off the lake.

[mamohr686]

It is leagal to access the lake by a public roadway unless otherwise posted if it is within boundary mentioned earler. Another exception is in the case of high water, if the landowner had an existing fence before the high water it is only accessable by public right of way you have to have permission by the landowner. In most cases it it better to ask when in doubt rather than to upset the local landowner.

[The_Duckslayer]

I fished out there last year. According to Kyle (formerly Kyles Bait Shop) he checked and the county has a right of way. According to the farmer that chewed my behind for being out there they do not. I know that the Sheriff and CO's have both been out there and as far as I know they have never made anyone leave the lake. I started dropping right onto the creek from the bridge after that. I have not been there yet this year as I figured the creek would be running water with as warm as it is... did they fence off the creek? I'll have to swing by there after work. Let me know if your questions get the same answer that I got from Kyle.

I live on Arizona St NW with the goose mail box. Maybe see ya on the road there some time. Take care and N Joy the Hunt././Jimbo

[Ice Hole]

Not only did the landowner fence it off, the fence comes up to the edge of the roadway and runs along the bridge over the top of the creek.

[Nutty Fisherman]

Boy the way it looks he does not want you in there. Now if you realy want to get his goat see if it is legal to do that

[Ice9]

It is not legal.

This has been extensively discussed in other threads.

Even if the creek runs through a single owner's property, being in or on the water or within the natural high water mark is legal in this state and most other states, with some weird exceptions. Landowners have no right to expel you from the water or the verge of the lake/high water mark, which is usually construed as a narrow walkable fringe. That does not sit well with most landowners, and legal or not you'd probably not want to tangle with one because these laws (or, more accurately, lack of laws) are counterintuitive. Landowners tend to figure that they own the lake. Many paid premium prices for lots on lakes with no public access so they would not have to share the water. Many landowner associations actively violate the rights of citizens, and some even publish incorrect information in their association documents; lawsuits have been lost by landowners in these cases. In fact docks are not exclusively private property in Minnesota; once in the water they're a kind of easement, which in fact protects landowners from liability in the case of injuries by boaters. That doesn't mean you should wander around on peoples' docks, of course. Again, this is not known, liked, or acknowledged by landowners who might naturally be expected to yeall or threaten first, which can spoil your day whether you are right or wrong. Best approach is usually to seek permission.

Also, "navigable" has been defined by courts very broadly. Even a trickle of a creek counts.

Of course, the key is access. You are guilty if you park and/or walk on private property, but once on the water you are legal.

I don't know the lake you describe, but if you can move from a public right-of-way (which most state- or county-maintained roads are) to the water or creekbank to the lake surface then you're within your rights to do so. As for the fence, I'd leave it alone since there are also liberal laws to permit farmers to control their livestock, and even if the landowner in question has no livestock you're in a very troublesome area if you tamper with the fence.

In Virginia where I fished and guided a lot there are odd laws and even odder people. I fished often on a small stream called Craig Creek in Botetourt County, a terrific little smallie stream about the size of the Rum up around Milaca. One day we floated the river in a whitewater raft, adn were confronted by a farmer while afloat on a pool. He pointed a shotgun at us and demanded that we travel upstream off of his property. IT took a while but he finally let us move on (downstream) with some nasty threats. The next day, on a different stretch of water two miles downstream, the same guy and another man stretched barbed wire across the river at a sharp bend below a curve, clearly intended to do us harm and not for "livestock." Luckily we had boat handling skill enough to stay off the obstacle and avoid getting shredded long enough to cut the wire and pass on.

Oddly enough, it later developed that the man was within his rights to order us off his property (but not to use force or set a dangerous trap.) Several farmers had another guide arrested for float-fishing the Jackson River, not far from Craig Creek, on the grounds that they owned both banks of the river and therefore the ground under it (and presumably the fish in it, though they were State stocked, state maintained, and state regulated.) They asserted in open court that the Navigable Waterway laws did not apply to them because their property rights dated back to land grants made by English monarchs in the 1600's. The Virginia Supreme Court bought this bizarre reasoning and the $50 fine assessed against the guide, Chuck Kraft of Charlottesville, was upheld. (States maintain property laws so the decision was not reviewable by the US Supreme Court or, I suppose, the High Court of Great Britain.)

Other so-called King's Grant cases have been lost and won in North Carolina, Maryland, and New York. Happily, that legal strategy won't work in Minnesota.

So the analysis is that you probably have the right to access the lake, but should recognize that doing so might not be the best choice.

ice

[Ice Hole]

That's kind of my feelings exactly. I don't believe the fence is legally placed, and I do believe the lake is legal to access from the bridge. However, there's far better (and more peaceful) places to fish and it's simply not worth the confrontation.

[ironman]

I'm sure there are more peaceful places to fish, and If I were a landowner I'd probably would like people to ask first. With that said, the law is the law. And if the body of water is affected by state programs such as stocking, streamside easements, crp lands, and other state funded enviromental programs to the betterment of that watershed, than I would be hard pressed to claim ownership or even rights to it. The public pays...it should get to play. What I would do is contact the DNR and make sure there arn't any weird loop holes for this exact body of water and if there isn't let the officer for that body of water know when you'll be there and give him a call if you are harrassed, they will come out and settle things. Seems extreme but that has to be done sometimes, I know a similar case just happened this year duck hunting on a lake with a public access with someone setting up next to private land. The landowner threatened and continued to remove decoys from the water...he was corrected by the CO! You just cant do tings like dat. Also, if I'm going to be shot for a fish...it better be a state record.

I'm no trying to start any landowner/sportsman fued its just my .02 which is probably more like .01

[ddsbyday]

Just contact the dnr. If the fence is illegal, ( which it probably is)They will be told to remove it. Chances are good this issue has come up before. The lake this happened to me on now has a big chunk of fence missing legally and under court order removed by the owner. It has been at least 15 years since I fished there but even after the fence was removed I took a tongue lashing the few times I went out. It gets to the point that it is just not worth it even if it is legal.

[mnrstrider]

I think we should have a Fishing MN get together on this lake , I'm pretty sure I know what lake this is too (inlaws live in lonsdale) I'd be there, I'ce always wanted to fish that lake too

[The_Duckslayer]

Quote:

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It has been at least 15 years since I fished there but even after the fence was removed I took a tongue lashing the few times I went out. It gets to the point that it is just not worth it even if it is legal.

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Yeah, but there are SLAB crappies in it! I would imagine they are even bigger this year! I may have an in, I have a buddy who has a buddy that lives on that lake and he thinks that I could go in across his land. Then the guy would not have a leg to stand on. More of a hike to get to the spot but hey... a stringer full of slabs will make a nice feast! And oh by the way... don't crappies taste SO much better int he winter?! Take care and N Joy the Hunt././Jimbo

[V-12 Merlin]

I've always felt that courtesy and kindness were the best weapons. Asking for permission may take more effort, but you don't have to apologize later (or defend yourself in court).

[Hotspotter]

Being all-too familiar with this problem, my only advice is to make dead sure that the letter of the law is on your side, no matter what. It is sickening when hunters/fisherman are stuck in the middle of neighborly disputes (one owner OK with fishing, the other not), and greed drives this negative feedback loop into the ground.

If you have permission and another landowner disagrees, make sure it is written permission and you only cross his property. If the other owner asks to see it, show him and don't take any dump. Have your cell phone handy to report this person for harassment, or at least tell the guy you will make the call.

Do your homework, ask a CO/sheriff, and do not tolerate harassment. As sportsman, we owe it to ourselves to be ethical, yet deserving of a hassle-free outing should we be following the rules. Letting uninformed and threatening landowners leave a bad taste in your mouth for something you love, is simply not acceptable. Don't let them push you out, but be fair and yield if you're not on the right "side."

Joel