Windy, I stand corrected

[MrSenarighi]

It only took Santana 1/5 the time I thought to lower his ERA below Judy Garlands. If wins meant anything other than timely run support I would say you have yourself one heck of a pitcher.

[buzzsaw]

Very well stated!!!

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Mr. Sen

It was a slow night, my beloved had just pounded the Rockies into submission and the Twinks rolled over the hapless Diamondbacks (they are playing more like garden snakes, I can't believe they are considered one of the teams to make the playoffs in NL). Anywho, I just thought I would poke the bear a little and by the replies, it seemed to work. Now, if you will excuse me, I have to look at the 15 replies to my harmless little post, te he te he!

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD....YES!

[mnvikingsfreak]

hapless? arizona?? you are thinking about the AA team Colorado Rockies that your white sux beat,pretty impressive wins against a team that would get killed by the saint paul saints I forgot how did santana do yesterday again?

[buzzsaw]

Windy, for the love of god, get an avatar already... that little red X is hurting my eyes.

Do you know how to set that up? if not, I can help.

[SledNeck]

are you kidding, its way beyond someone of his intelligence...even though it requires little.

[Commanche Jim]

Garland 10-2 7.0 ip 6 H 1 ER

and 1-2 at the plate with an RBI.

Go Hee-Seop

5 1/2 game lead

[fishyguy]

Let us take a full look at the two pitchers....

Career Stats W L ERA H BB SO WHIP AVG K/BB K/9

Santana 50 20 3.45 590 231 777 1.15 .223 3.33 9.76

Garland 56 53 4.54 886 342 478 1.40 .267 1.37 4.92

And since you brought Garland's hit into it

Career Stats AB R H RBI TB BB SO OBP SLG AVG

Santana 20 1 6 2 6 0 2 .300 .300 .300

Garland 12 0 2 1 2 1 2 .231 .167 .167

If you want to discuss who is having the better start to the year, you have a argument. If you want to discuss who is the better pitcher, Garland loses big.

[Commanche Jim]

Discuss who's the better pitcher? The better pitcher for the 2005 season as of now is John Garland. YOU LOSE BIG, FISHGUY. I don't care about last year, the year before, or 2000. Sox didn't win a championship, nor did the Twins. Who cares about the PAST. It's funny how Twins and Cubs fans dwell and brag about the past. Santana may have been a much better pitcher last year and the year before, but the Sox have 5 starting pitchers that are more effective than Santana this year, 3 of them having lower ERA's, and 3 of them equaling or bettering Santana's win total.

Barry Zito 13 13 81.2 73 Hits 2 Wins 7 Losses 4.41 ERA THIS YEAR

Zito could arguably be one of the best pitchers in MLB over the past few years. Is he better than Garland too because he's pitched better in the past?

Garland is a year younger than Santana, but yet has 5 career more victories.

[Willy]

Garland is the better pitcher NEVER buddy. There is no one is the whole world that would take your souped up Rick Reed over Santana. Garland is a fifth starter. Santanna is a CY Young winner. You Sox fans must have blinders on to think that Garland is a better pitcher than Johan. And yes, I'm talking about this year. If you asked the Sox players if they would rather have Garland or Santanna, 100% of them would pick Santanna. It's not even close buddy, so don't try to say ANY of your pitchers are better than Santanna. IT JUST AIN'T TRUE.

Judy Garland

K/9 WHIP BAA SO BB

4.38 1.11 .257 42 14

Johan Santana

K/9 WHIP BAA SO BB

11.11 0.89 .209 114 11

It's not hard to put up stats that makes Santana look better.

[Commanche Jim]

It sure seems that 3 of our pitcher have better ERA's than Yo-han, BUDDY!!!!!! If I'm not mistaken, that means they have given up fewer runs per 9 innings........, making them more effective pitchers!!!!!!! Isn't the ERA and win totals usually the stats used to compare pitchers?

[Willy]

Well if that wasn't enough for you to chew on G.I JIM I'll just give you the scouting reports from ESPN.

Jon Garland:

Garland has a solid sinking fastball in the low-90s but has been unable to complement it with another plus pitch. His curveball can be a good pitch, but he does not command it well enough. He does not do a good job of changing speeds and winds up in too many hitters' count, which helps explains how a sinkerballer could give up the fourth-most home runs in the AL.

Johan Santana:

Santana has three dominating pitches-a 94-MPH fastball, an 87-MPH slider and a 76-MPH changeup. The changeup is the most devastating, because it comes out of his hand looking just like his fastball. When it arrives 18 MPH slower than the heater, hitters swing and miss by embarrassing margins. The difference between 2003 and 2004 was his ability to locate his pitches, while in the past he relied more on changing speeds. Santana also learned to throw his slider with different breaks at different speeds, giving him a slurve-like alternative to his other pitches.

That and yippee, his ERA is 8 one hundreths of a percent better than Johan. We'll see who has a better ERA at the end of the year. My guess is Johan will be better by almost a run.

[Commanche Jim]

Willy,

What are you talking about? When was that scouting report? 4th most home runs given up in the AL? Every one of the Twins starters have given up more home runs than Garland's 6.

Home Runs given up this year:

Radke: 14, 2nd worst in the league

Mays: 11

JoHan: 10

Lohse: 9

Silva: 8

[fishyguy]

Quote:

---

Discuss who's the better pitcher? The better pitcher for the 2005 season as of now is John Garland. YOU LOSE BIG, FISHGUY. I don't care about last year, the year before, or 2000. Sox didn't win a championship, nor did the Twins. Who cares about the PAST. It's funny how Twins and Cubs fans dwell and brag about the past. Santana may have been a much better pitcher last year and the year before, but the Sox have 5 starting pitchers that are more effective than Santana this year, 3 of them having lower ERA's, and 3 of them equaling or bettering Santana's win total.

Barry Zito 13 13 81.2 73 Hits 2 Wins 7 Losses 4.41 ERA THIS YEAR

Zito could arguably be one of the best pitchers in MLB over the past few years. Is he better than Garland too because he's pitched better in the past?

Garland is a year younger than Santana, but yet has 5 career more victories.

---

If Garland loses his next start and Johan wins, is Johan better again? And then if Johan loses, Garland loses, and Halladay wins, is he then the best? And then all three of them lose, and Kyle Lohse gets on a 3 game winning streak he can be the best. Then Jose Lima can throw a shutout and he can be the best. Like you said, who cares about the past. That must mean what you do today is all that matters.

If Michael Cuddyer bats .500 for the next month, hits 10 HR's,and has 20 RBI's, should we say he is better than A-Rod? He would have been better recently, so that would fit your slanted, biased, bend to fit your own logic, wouldn't it?

[Down to Earth]

Quote:

---

Garland is a year younger than Santana, but yet has 5 career more victories.

---

Some of your comparisons are quite valid, but you really should look at the big picture before posting so you don't look quite so dumb.

TRUE it IS FACT that Garland has 6 more career victories than Santana in his career, but you forget that 1/2 of Santanas career was spent in the bullpen. Let me make your comparison a little more complete and you will see there really is no comparison.

Garland: Games Started 139

Wins 56

Santana: Games Started 88

Wins 50

To make it easy lets just give Santana 44 more starts equalling 132 with his current pace and that puts his win total at 75. Nearly 20 wins more with 7 less games started.

[james_walleye]

There is absolutely no way anyone here can take you seriously at all if you really believe your whole rotation is better than Santana. You tell any baseball fan in this country that you would take any of your sux 5 starters over Santana and every single one of them would turn there back and walk away laughing. Lets not forget that the Twins pitching staff has a better ERA than the white sox staff. Your not going too convince anyone on here or anywhere that the white sox staff is better than this twins staff. And your also nuts if you think the sux are going too play better than .600 baseball the whole season.

Garland has been a serious career overachiever, hes shown a glimmer now through what, about 12, 13 starts? Its going too take a little more than 13 starts too convince anyone hes better than the 2004 Cy Young winner.

[buzzsaw]

Commanche commanche commanche, Down to earth just put your firmly in your place! If you didn't realize that Santana worked out of the bullpen for many years then you are a fool, if you did realize that and tried to slide that talk by us Twins fans you need to be smarter... oh wait, you route for a team that can't win a championship!

[Down to Earth]

Quote:

---

... oh wait, you route for a team that can't win a championship!

---

but Buzzsaw, don't you root for the Vikings?

Sorry it was just too easy.

[buzzsaw]

I said the White Sox CAN'T win a championship, the Vikings can and will........ some year.

[Commanche Jim]

Sox HAVE won a championship, and some day, will win another one.

[mnvikingsfreak]

LOL ok

[crappieflop1212]

Quote:

---

Sox HAVE won a championship, and some day, will win another one.

---

Yeah, if no one buys them out to throw the series.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Money talks.