Food Plot Seed Suppliers???

[cyberamish]

Anyone know of (and want to share info about) somewhere a guy can get food plot seed (clover, chickory, alf, etc.) inexpensively? There must be an alternative to the prepackeged stuff at Gander, Cabela's, etc. I've looked online and found it for about half the price but when you factor in shipping 2 or 3 50# bags the shipping costs more than the seed. Would a county seed coop carry it? Anyone.....Bueller....

[Dotch]

I don't know how far you're willing to travel but Albert Lea Seed House carries a lot of that kind of material and they're generally competitively priced. Another place you might consider would be Werner Farm Seed at Dundas, south of the Twin Cities off of I-35. www.alseed.com for AL Seed House and I can't find my Werner catalog around here (office=disaster area) but if you're interested I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Mark Christianson]

Hey cyber

The West Metro MDHA has seed that they sell. It is subsidized by the hides for habitat, so you pay 50% of list price.

Send me an email if you want more info.

[email protected]

I work in Maple Grove and could very easily deliver it if its something that fits your needs.

[cyberamish]

biglake, you got mail....

[Mark Christianson]

OK, off topic.

Dotch(Chev)

Where is that autosignature from?? A movie line or something?

[Beeber]

cyberamish,

Any local Ag Retailer should carry what you are looking for. Look in your yellow pages under Seed and find a one close to you and give them a call. You should be able to buy what you are looking for especially the clovers and alfalfa for $3 to $5/lb or less. You could also check out this link http://www.agassizseed.com this is where I get most of my specialty stuff from. They are local for me so no shipping involved but they may be able to give you the contact info for a local retailer that handles the same type of seed.

Good luck

[Beeber]

I bought some certified oat seed from Albert Lea Seed House over 10 years ago and found them very easy to work with. I did not know they had a web page. I checked it out and was impressed. Their prices are very reasonable with a good selection.

Thanks for the link

[Dotch]

No problem. The AL Seedhouse is handy for lots of native prairie, food plot stuff, etc., they are as you mention easy to get along with and they've been in business since Jesus was a boy. Off topic: BLB, being slightly younger than this old geezer, it's from the Doors L.A. Woman LP, Riders on the Storm. I am the Lizard King, I can do anything!

[Mark Christianson]

Off topic, then I am done:

Ding Ding Ding!!!

Thats it. I thought it kinda sounded familiar, but I just thought I was used to seeing it in your signature.

[PerchJerker]

Hey cyberamish, check out Hennepin Coop. They have a location in Maple Plain that I go to, and I know they have another location somewhere and I think it's up in your area. They should be a source for lots of things like soil tests, lime, fertilizer, seed, herbicide, and some practical advice.

How much ground are you planting that you need 100-150 lbs of seed? The recommended seeding rates for clover and chicory are something like 8-10 lbs per acre. By my math that's enough seed for 10 acres.

One thing to consider, assuming you're planting a food plot to attract deer, is that there's many different varieties of clover, quite a few different varieties of rape seed, and even a couple different varieties of chicory. You can look around until you find the cheapest seed but it probably won't be preferred by the deer, and in some cases they may not even eat it -- for example, clover for cattle production is vastly different than what you would want to plant for deer. It doesn't mean you need to buy the most expensive seed you can find, but I'd be wary about buying the cheapest.

I'd suggest you take biglakeba$$ up on his offer for the MDHA seed blend. Overlooking the fact that he's not too good with Door's lyrics, he's got a good deal on some good seed. I also know someone else that used the MDHA perennial blend last year and they were pretty happy with it too.

Good luck.

Cops in cars, the topless bars, never saw a woman, so alone

[Mark Christianson]

Thanks PJ.

I appreciate the recommendation.

[cyberamish]

Thanks PJ, I am going to pursue the MDHA route as well as the Coop. I know where the seed Coop is (81 & 101) and was wondering if they could help. I have about 10 to 15 acres (2 plots) plus I want to try planting some seed along some fence lines as well. We have roughly 185 acres of hunting land near Duluth to work with, and I would like something for deer and grouse. Was also looking at something in a small grain to draw in some sharptail. I wasn't looking for the cheapest, just a lower cost alternative to the $95.00 a bag stuff available retail. It's one of those deal where I have 6 other guys who hunt with me but funny.... no one is ever around to help out ($$$) with stuff like this. One of our neighbors up there offered to disc up the plots for me after I take the field mower to them and spray some round up on 'em. Thanks for all the info!!!

[PerchJerker]

Wow, I'd love to have the acreage that you have. I have 40 acres, a buddy near me has 150 acres, and we lease the 80 acre parcel that's between us. We're about 40 miles NW of Grand Rapids. Other than our private tracts the majority of the land is National Forest or Potlatch. Very heavily wooded and no farmers around us - our food plots work great.

Since you have so much land to plant, I'll give you some suggestions and you can do with them whatever you want.

I'd put 1/2 your food plot acreage into perennials like clover and chicory - the MDHA blends would be good choices. These will be great nutrition plots and will attract the deer all year, but for strictly hunting there are better options. You have enough acreage to plant that you should be thinking about "nutrition" plots and "fall attraction" plots.

I'd take a 1/4 of your food plots and plant brassicas - rape, turnips, kale, etc. Since you're so far north you'll want to plant them in the spring, and they'll grow all summer long and the deer won't touch them until you get a couple hard frosts. Then the deer will POUND them. Happens around mid-late October at my place. They're awesome for bowhunting over and with the acreage you have you should still have them using the brassicas in gun season.

I'd take the other 1/4 of your plots and plant cereal grains, but do not plant them until the fall -- late August, even the first of September. Oats are the deers' favorite, but they're also the first to freeze out. Wheat and rye are less preferred but are more cold hardy. Triticale is another popular choice. These grains germinate quickly and the deer will eat them as soon as they come up. These grains withstand heavy browsing and these plots should be full of deer from the time they start growing until they freeze out (or until the grains mature). They have to be planted in the fall to work - if you plant them in the spring they'll be mature in the fall and the deer will ignore them during hunting season.

Brassicas and cereal grains are annuals and they are a lot cheaper than clover and chicory deer mixes. Cereal grains in particular are very inexpensive per acre, and from what I hear any variety will work - go to Henn Coop, buy whatever they have for oats, wheat and rye, mix them together, and you should be good to go - just don't plant them too early.

There's a huge variety of brassicas out there and prices range from cheap to very pricey. My favorite is kale, but it's $12/lb or $60/acre. Make or buy a blend of brassicas, and do not exceed the recommended seeding rates by much - these plants get big and you want to give them room to spread out. I'd try to have 3-4 varieties of brassicas and just mix them together.

Look up Nature's Own Wildlife Seeds on the web. They've got some great products and I usually buy from them every year. In particular, look at their Deer Turnips special -- if I remember right it's something like 12 lbs of turnip seed for $15. One word of caution - for whatever reason I've never had good luck with the variety of rape they sell - not sure if it's just my deer that don't like it, but I use other stuff now.

Good luck, I hope some of this helps.

[cyberamish]

Thanks for all of the info PJ! My rough plan right now is to plant one area (roughly 7 acr) in an annual blend. Looking at turnip/beets with about an acre of sunflowers. Right off of that area I have a small 1/2 acre meadow that I thought I would plant either pumpkins or sunflowers in. In the other plot I was thinking a clover/chicory planting. Along the fencelines I was thinking of planting an oat/wheat/alf blend I picked up. I've got 8 apple trees to plant around the area as well. Figured I had to do something to counteract the 55 gal barrels of corn that seem to "show up" on the neighbors stands in November. Not about to complain though as they have another 150 acres that we hunt when we do drives. The other thing I had thought about was millet. I see it planted at all the game farms and it seems pretty hardy.

[PerchJerker]

Sounds like you've got a good plan going. Can I ask why you're planting the sunflowers and pumpkins - specifically for the deer, or for some other reasons?

As far as I know we don't have much/any deer baiting going on around me, but there's a guy about a mile down the road with deer feeders in his front yard. Lots of deer hit them as soon as it gets dark - no question that it pulls some of the deer that would otherwise be in my food plots. I've seen 4 or 5 dandy bucks down there in late October - bigger than any bucks I've gotten pictures of with my trail cameras.

[Mark Christianson]

I have heard deer like pumpkins. I take and toss the Halloween pumpkins out behind the house, and I have seen the deer pawing around in the dirt where I have squashed them.

The millet kinda confused me for deer though. Do deer like millet? If you are gonna put a crop in the ground, I would think corn or soybeans would be a better bet.

[cyberamish]

I've been planting sunflowers (the big mammoth black seed variety) behind some other property we have in Carlton for several years. As soon as the seeds start to ripen they become deer magnets. It's almost comical to watch the deer try to knock down the stalks to get at the seed heads. My grandmother had been living there and originally asked me to plant them for the songbirds about 15 years ago. The millet I thought might help bring in and hold some sharptail. Saw some nice coveys during deer season last year.

[Beeber]

Guys,

I have to put my two cents in on the topic of "food plot mixes". Yes there is some difference in nutrition and palatability among varieties within a species but in my opinion most of the "Advantages" of tailor made seed mixes for wildlife is more hype and marketing then reality. I've been in the Agriculture business for over 20 years working in industry for the last 7 and know a little about the subject. I used to sell a lot of hay, feed, and seed off the farm to people for this purpose from Ely to Hibbing. As a matter of fact that is how I put myself through college. Here is what I know to be true on this subject.

1. In most cases (especially with perennials) Plant cultivars that are adapted to your area. (soil type, Growing season, availability of water and nutrients)

2. Don't go hog wild with mixes of different crops and types of plants (broadleaf + Grasses) as you will loose many if not all of your weed control options in crop.

3. For the best attraction plant something that is out of the norm for your area but will still grow in your area (refer to #1)

4. Last but most important, Spend more time and money on site prep (tillage), Fertility, soil amendments (Lime), and weed control then on any of the above.

Agriculture crops that are relatively inexpensive but depending on your situation work well.

Field peas/lupins

Oil Sunflower (a great late season treat for deer)

Soybean

Sweet/field Corn

Canola (better than rape as it does not contain euritic acid)

Sugarbeet (more expensive than most crops but is great for deer with a sweet tooth)

Pumpkins (curbits in general)

Chicory

Turnips/Rutabaga

Alfalfa

Red clover (A favorite in my hay selling days. Classified as a biannual but can last for 3-4 years)

Alsike Clover (will grow on a low soil pH)

Ladino clover

Birdsfoot trefoil (Great for a stand that you want to keep for many years)

Spring cereals work (oats, barley, wheat) but you may get more bang for your buck out of winter cereals planted in the late summer to early Fall.

Winter Wheat

Winter Rye (more vigorous than winter wheat)

Winter Tritacale (a cross between wheat and rye)

In the end you do not have to buy expensive seed to have a successful food plot. Any claim of a miracle blend that will grow the largest horns in the state has to be met with a high level of skepticism as it is a claim made more from a marketing than a scientific perspective. You will be far better off using the extra money for site prep and weed control.

There I'm off my soapbox. I don't mean this post to offend anyone just to add a different perspective to the mix.

[cyberamish]

THANKS!!!! That is a ton of good info! One last question for you guys.... Is there a perennial that would be best to plant in an area that has not been planted in over 25 yrs? The area was once planted in oats but has since gone natural. Soil is sandy, but in a lowland area where moisture should be good. Area is adjacant to an 80 acr alfalfa field now but is heavily used by deer as a "waiting" area in the evening. They will filter in there in the early evening and hold in the brushy areas surrounding it until well after dark to go out on the neighbor's alfalfa. Would like to get them to feel safe eating on this smaller (7 acr) plot during daylight hours.

[Dotch]

Some interesting discussion here. I see that BLB has mentioned the cervid/pumpkin relationship and it's true. Sheep & goats love 'em and have noticed the deer will gnaw on our patch at home when we don't get 'em picked quickly. Excellent advice Beeber. As an "old" ag professional with a background in weed science and soil science, some things will work in some areas of the state and will be an absolute disaster in others. MN is a huge state with a lot of diversity when it comes to soils and climate. Am fortunate to have had some experience growing & scouting all the crops you mention except chicory. A composite family plant with blue ray flowers only, it commonly grows in the southern 3/4's of the state in undisturbed areas, meadows & pastures as a weed.

[Beeber]

cyberamish,

In that type of situation I don't think I would plant a perennial. As long as the area is not excessively wet I would try something that will provide a little cover for the deer as well as a food source. My suggestion would be sweetcorn/field corn rotated with sunflowers year on year. Both of these crops will need 150 to 200 lbs/A of Nitrogen and on sandy soil probably some P and K as well. Take a soil test to find out where you need to go on the fertilizer. If the area is pretty wet then you may be forced to go with a perennial such as trefoil or alsike. Both of these are different enough from the alfalfa to provide some attraction value. In either case start by spraying 1qt/a of roundup plus AMS in early to mid June then wait two to three weeks and plow it (25 years of sod will need a plow not a disc). Spend the rest of the summer working it to get a good seedbed. If you decide to go the perennial way, plant your legume of choice in combination with winter wheat or rye in late August and mow it off the following late May or early June. If you want to plant Corn or Sunflowers do the same except plant an annual cereal (oats, barley, wheat) in August and then plant your Corn or Sunflower the following spring after a light tillage.

Good luck

[Beeber]

Hey Dotch,

It's good to see a fellow Ag professional in this forum. I received my B.S. from the U of M Crookston and my M.S. in Weed Science at NDSU. I have never personally planted Chicory (Asteraceae, Sunflower family) but have read about it and seen a few fields in northern Manitoba. My understanding is that it is native to the Mediterranean region but was brought to North America for use as salad greens and a substitute for coffee (ground up roots). Some breeding has been done with it to produce a very palatable forage. It is well adapted to extreme climates (Northern latitudes) and less than stellar soil conditions.

I think there is a few acres in ND grown for seed but I would have to check on that.

Take it easy

[Dotch]

Likewise, Beeber. talk from U of M at St. Paul, double major in soils and agronomy. Still try to make the NCWSS meetings when I can. Next one is in KC I think. Have had ground chicory root made like coffee and from my perspective, the deer are much better off eating the stuff! It was pretty bitter and didn't give me much of a jolt. Unfortunately most of my good weed reference materials are on loan right now to a local FFA crops team so I am even dumber than normal.

[BLACKJACK]

Good topic with lots of good info! I just made a note to myself the other day that I need to plan my food plots!

Beeber, I thought canola and rape were the same plant? Not true? Also, you recommended Roundup and AMS, what is AMS?

I don't have a sprayer, will plowing and disking multiple times accomplish a proper weed kill on sod? The spot I'm looking at is sod along the edge of a CRP field, I was going to plow it in late May, disk it several times over the summer, then plant it in rye in mid Aug, then rework and plant into some sort of clover blend in the spring of 06.

Any thoughts on a proper mix for a clover blend? I was going to have a local seed guy mix me a blend of alsike clover, red clover, ladino clover, and alfalfa at 25% each. Should I add white clover to the mix?

Should a plot of the brassicas - rape, turnups, beets, chicory - be all one seed or a mix?

Albert Lea seed house is a good place to start, I've ordered from them, lots of variety, but it gets expensive when you add shipping. I usually figure about 1/3 of my cost will be shipping cost. Thats why I'm going to try a local seed house.

Any recommendations for a dryer, sandier spot? Maybe alfalfa?

Lastly, I want to do some fertilizing this spring on my clover spots, was thinking of using a 10-20-20, is that ok?

Thanks all for the advice!

[Beeber]

BlackJack,

Canola and rape are basically the same plant but Rape seed produces an oil that is used for industrial purposes (contains euritic acid) and Canola seed produces an oil that is used in food (Canola oil you but in the store). I don't know for sure but I would guess that Canola seed is cheaper than rape as there are approximately 1.5 million acres grown in ND and MN. Also you can buy Canola that is either Resistant to Roundup or Liberty herbicides which is a godsend for weed control. AMS is short for Ammonium Sulfate. AMS is a nitrogen fertilizer which is used as a water conditioner/adjuvant in combination with a number of herbicides but especially important with Roundup and Liberty herbicides improving efficacy.

I would get my self a sprayer. A decent Used 30' sprayer should go for around $500 to $750. Sprayers are an industry to themselves and you can spend a lot of money if your not careful on nozzels/screens/pumps... so watch what you buy. For a good idea on prices of new sprayers try these two links: ( www.riverbendind.com and www.horvick.com ). Now you can do a decent job with tillage but for perennial weeds like Quackgrass, Canada thistle and ... A Stiff rate of Roundup will make your life much easier and save you a lot of time and money in the end.

You can plant Clover/Alfalfa in the Fall and it will do well. If it was me I would plant it with the "Winter" Rye in the fall using the rye as a nurse crop. Just seed the rye a little thin (1 bu/A) so it doesn't compete to much. This will give you a good stand in 2006. you will have to mow or spray out the rye in late May 2006 after the deer are done using it for a spring treat.

As far as the seed blend it is really dependent on your area but remember that Red clover is very aggressive and thus in combination with other legumes is should be planted at a lower rate. You will loose most of your red clover after year 3.

If it were me I would plant your Canola, Turnips, Beets, and Chicory separately so I could control the weeds but if you are confident that you have them under control then you probably can. In my experience that situation will only last one season and the following year you will have a mess. Remember Chicory is a perennial not an annual. I have read that Chicory does well under most conditions thus it and Alfalfa or Sunflower (all produce deep tap roots) Would work good in your dry area as long as there was enough moisture to get them going.

Without knowing your site it is hard to give a good fertilizer recommendation but if you inoculated your clover it should be producing adequate nitrogen so I would think the 10-20-20 would work well. Remember not to spread your fertilizer on wet plants or you will burn them. It is best to apply it early in the spring when they are dormant or before a rain during the growing season.

Happy Planting