Power Tilt hydraulic motor problem

[Guest]

I've got a '83 90hp Evinrude and the power tilt hydraulic motor seems to have gone out. I was able to unscrew the hydraulic release on the lower right side (just below the mounting bracket) so that I could manually raise the motor. Problem now is that when I lowered the motor after again unscrewing the hydraulic release, the two metal "plungers" came popping out and won't let the motor release down to a fully lowered position. I called a marine dealer about this and they said the plungers should go back down with a little weight put on them, but that is not the case I am finding. What is required to allow these hydraulic plungers to release and allow the motor to lower completely?

[Valv]

You will need a lot of pressure to lower them completely.
It's made mainly to get you going in an emergency.

Have you checked if now unit works ? 90% of problems are motor brushes, they have small springs inside that corrode and disappear, try tapping on motor, see if it lowers down more. Replacing these is not much money, I did it last summer on a '91 90hp and I used pen spring to get it to work again in an emergency, it is still working fine.

Remember to screw manual release back in.

[Mueske]

Once this summer (my first with a boat) my '82 Evinrude 140 wouldn't allow the motor to lower when preparing for the ramp. I returned home with some hyrdaulic fluid, topped it off, and it worked fine. No problems since and yes, I fished that day. That puppy wouldn't budge no matter what else I tried at the lake so it could have been that the trailering caused it to move? I doubt it, the manual states that it could stay in the trailering position if low on fluid. Does your motor run and have you checked the fluid? Took two minutes to fill mine and now I carry the remainder in the boat at all times.

Kevin

[Guest]

When I flick the switch to my hydraulic motor all I hear is a click somewhere in back near my fuse panel. I checked all the fuses and they all seem good. I did try tapping on the hydraulic motor to see if it would start up again, but to no avail.

My boat sits on a lift all summer so I'm not raising/lowering the motor a significant amount (basically twice a year). If I can get the motor to lower fully I could effectively ignore the deficiencies of the hydraulic motor, but currently the bow rides so high it makes it nearly impossible to ride in any kind of windy conditions.

[Valv]

Borch, ask Ken how I fix T & Trim units.....he'll laugh...

[Borch]

That clicking sound is your seliniod or switch relay. Try bypassing the switch by hooking junmper cables to the motor wires. If the motor will go up or down then it's the seliniod or relay switch. If not it's the motor itself. Mine is heading in today to get a new motor for the tilt and trim. Second one this summer. This one should be covered under the motors warranty though.

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I bad day of fishing??? I honestly don't know what you're talking about!

[Surface Tension]

As Borch posted that is the best way to eliminated the relay, solenoid, switch and wiring problem. If the motor doesn't run then its most likely the brushs as Valv stated. If you don't feel comfortable replacing the brushs yourself then a Ma-Pa alternator/Starter shop will be your best bet to have the brushes replaced,

[Guest]

Thanks for all the help everyone! I'll try some of those suggestions this weekend and let you know how things went.

[Borch]

Valv,

You had trouble up there too?

I had my T/T motor replaced a few days before I headed up there. The Friday afternoon before we left to come home the relay went bad and I could only lower the motor. I got by by switching the wires to raise it when I needed to.

The new T/T motor went bad again this past week when I was on Cass. I didn't mess with it as it still is under warranty and we had an extra boat along.

I'll have to remember to ask Ken about it the next time I talk to him.

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I bad day of fishing??? I honestly don't know what you're talking about!

[Guest]

Never got around to bypassing the solenoid last fall. Too many other things came up while shutting down for winter so now it's left for me to deal with this spring. I did look at what it would take to bypass the solenoid and didn't see anything that looked real obvious at the time so I just stored the boat away.

Not to sound real stupid, but where are the leads to the hydraulic motor located? Everything seems real sealed up in a waterproof housing below and to the right of where the motor mount are. All I recall seeing was some steel tubing running into this housing. Would this tubing carry the power cord? I assume I'd have to crack open this housing to access the power leads? Anyone with detailed knowledge of this would be helpful before I go off and crack open a waterproof housing that doesn't need to be cracked.

Thanks in advance.

[upnorth]

I would suggest getting ahold of a repair manual, it will guide your through the tests to find the problem.

I had my trim and tilt go out on my "87" 70 horse evinrude 2 years ago and on mine there was a panel with 2 solenoids in it 1 controls the up and the other controls the down. The panel on mine was on the the top of the motor to the front of the motor and was plastic with a pop off top. If yours has this and you can find the panel switch them. That will tell if one of the solenoids are shot. After all the testing mine would up being the rocker switch in the handle.

[Surface Tension]

If you crack anything you'll have to fix that too. If they are shielded it'll have to be flexible at some point to account for the swivel of the motor. Look for them clamped along the outboards bracket and follow them up to a wiring block attached to the engine.

[Valv]

Don't touch the steel lines, these are the hydraulics, nothing to do with wiring.

There is a thick cable that goes from tilt & trim housing to right below outboard motor, to inside outboard motor cowling to top and back of it. It's a black plastic box, approx 5" x 3" way on back and on top of motor.
Open it and you'll find the 2 solenoids.
There are only 3 wire colors, green, blue, and red.

Let us know if you found it.

[This message has been edited by Valv (edited 03-13-2004).]

[beer batter]

I made it up to check on the boat this weekend. Followed 2 wires out of the hydraulic motor housing that go underneath the rear compartment into a fuse box. Inside of this fuse box is a fuse which is in good condition (I tested it). There are also 2 elements which I assume are being used as a sort of solenoid however they don't look like any solenoid I've ever seen. They're each about 1.5" square in size and have the brand name of Bosch on them with about 4 input wires and a single output wire. One has an output wire colored green, the other blue. These wires join together into a single double wire (one being the blue, the other green) that leads off to the hydraulic motor. I'm guessing one raises the motor, the other lowers it. They other wire coming from the hydraulic motor has 2 black leads that go on to connections inside that fuse box that I'm guessing are ground.

Anyway, with the battery connected I hear a clicking noise coming from this fuse box area whenever I engage the tilt rocker switch either direction.

It seems almost too much of a coincidence to me that both "solenoids" would go out at the same time. Kind of leads me to think it's something not working properly inside the hydraulic motor housing. Only reason I say this is that I've eliminated the rocker switch, and the fuse. Only things left that I know of our these Bosch "solenoid" elements, and the hydraulic motor itself.

Anyone have another guess?

[beer batter]

S. T.

What 2 wires would I connect to the battery? The blue and the green or one of the colored ones with one of the black ones? The blue and the green each come out of separate relays so I assume they would not be connected together - or maybe so?

Thanks again for the great info.

[Surface Tension]

Trace the 2 wires that come from the T&T motor and connect them to a battery.

[Valv]

S.T. is correct, use the 2 wires that come from T&T motor and connect 1 to + and other to -, to reverse direction, reverse wires.
This will get motor going up or down. Be sure to use a heavy gauge wire, since it will absorb a lot of juice, smaller wires will get hot in your hands.

I don't want to seem unfriendly or hurt your feelings, but to avoid any unnecessary extra damage, don't you think you should bring it to somebody that knows what he's doing ?

Again, sorry if I offended you, but I asked it to avoid any more problems, better pay a tech $ 50.00 to check it out, than $ 250 or more for motor or complete unit.

[Surface Tension]

Check and clean the connections to the relays. Label them so you know where they go back. If nothing then connect the 2 wires from the motor directly to a battery. Doesn't matter which way you connect them.
If the motor doesn't spin then theres your problem. Replace the brushs in the motor.

[beer batter]

Valv,

No offense taken at all. In fact I am nearing that point. I consider myself fairly compentent at debugging electical system problems, but when it comes to electrical relays and enclosed hydraulic motors where all you see are wires sticking out of a box with no schematic to show where these wires lead to, I'm nearing the end of my resources. I always like to save a few bucks on things when I can do it myself, but I've narrowed it down to areas that I have no knowledge of and the risk is probably greater than the reward.
Thanks again for all the advice.

[Guest]

Well I diagnosed it down to the the hydraulic motor, relays were putting voltage out so I brought it in.

The shop I brought it to had to pull off the Evinrude 90hp motor with a cherry picker to get the hydraulic motor out. Rebuilt the hydraulic motor, reinstalled the Evinrude and I'm back in business.

Is that typical to have to pull the whole motor off to get the hydraulic motor out? The labor to pull off the Evinrude was more than the cost to fix the hydraulic motor. $400 total for those interested.

[Surface Tension]

I'm not for sure on pulling the motor to do the job. Dosent take many shop hours to add up to $400. Glad you have it fixed.

[Chris-Neises]

Did they show you what was wrong? I had the same problem with my 90 hp Johnson. A friend of mine and I tried to troubleshoot and repair this out on the water. (trim would go down but not up). After disassembling the controls and wiring towards the back with a Swiss Army knife and an adjustable wrench, we found nothing. Whe had to disconnect the cylinders just to load the boat onto the trailer. After a series of tests w/ a multi-meter, it finally dawned on us. Towards the rear of the engine there is a two pronng plug. (one for up/one for down) When the engine cover is taken on and off, it is really close to this conection. Snapped it back tight and problem solved. I was just curious that by replacing the new motor they also connected those plugs which might have been loose, and therefore the only real problem. $400.00 is a lot of money.