Fall skid house build, all aluminum. Need input on runners

[perchking]

I am building a 7.6 x 12 foot skid house, NO "V".  For the runners I need input on if I should go with 2 or 3, they are specked to be 4x6 x1/4 runners with 1/4 HDPE.  I am thinking I need 3 for both strength and flotation in N Wisc.  As soon as the material is here, I will post pics of the progress.

The floor joists are 2 foot on center and are going to be 1.5x3 using 1/4 stock. 

Thoughts? 

[Sea Hage]

I'm always afraid the center skid might freeze down, the out side skids I can get at and crack them loose .

[perchking]

not really worried about that as I always block them or move them back to my cottage nightly.  Thanks though. 

[elkrivermn]

For that size house definitely go with three skis, not only will it pull easier, your house will be more stable.

[Hawg]

I had 8x12 skid houses for years with 2 runners, I would be scared of the middle freezing too. I used 5x6 white pine with 1/8 inch steel runner but that was many years ago before lots of the new materials were readily available. Always overbuild the skids, they take a huge pounding. I put supports across the front and back too between the skids. They made great jacking spots and they never collapsed inwards which is a nightmare. We would just drag them up the road and back to clean off the rust each winter. They slid great, I could slid my house by hand for short  distances if needed.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Hawg

[perchking]

This shack with Spray foam  and finished off should weigh less than 1500lbs, it will most likely never leave my lake.  I drag it out with a tracked gator so speed and bouncing it around is virtually impossible.  The way it is being designed, there really isn't a need for supports across the skids if my calculations are correct (but I guess time will tell).  There will be approximately 32 inches of weld on each floor joist as they span over the 3 runners, which should tie it together nicely.

 

They really cant collapse inwards as the floor joists are going to be welded on top of the skids giving me a full 6+" of clearance for the snow we get up here.

[Hawg]

Mine would collapse when I would try to either jerk it free(Lazy) or when trying to pull it through the drifts that always seem to form on the direction side you want to move it. Are you doing completely welded metal skids? I would still be careful of the center skid. You sound like you have a good plan, good luck.

[perchking]

Hawg,

 

They will be 4x6 aluminum boxed skids, with 1/4 or 1/2 HDPE plastic on the bottom.  Very similar to the pic below, but my floor joists will be welded on top of the skid, not the side.

 

 

[Hawg]

WOW, those are nice. You might want to put a 90 degree angle or something on there somewhere for something to put a jack or pry on. I'd be careful with a chisel too, those are way to nice to slice or dent up. Good job.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Hawg

[randerson]

I think you could get by with 3/16 stringers especially if using 3 skis my guestion is how are you attaching hdpe screws rivets won't they eventually just shear off most of the aluminum houses I see are less than 1/8" material for there structure 

also the units I see with three skids generally are just short ones under the V not sure a third is totally nessacery look at most skid houses even 12' width they have just 2 just my .02   

I think you could get by with 3/16 stringers especially if using 3 skis my guestion is how are you attaching hdpe screws rivets won't they eventually just shear off most of the aluminum houses I see are less than 1/8" material for there structure 

also the units I see with three skids generally are just short ones under the V not sure a third is totally nessacery look at most skid houses even 12' width they have just 2 just my .02   

[perchking]

1 hour ago, Hawg said:

WOW, those are nice. You might want to put a 90 degree angle or something on there somewhere for something to put a jack or pry on. I'd be careful with a chisel too, those are way to nice to slice or dent up. Good job.

Good point on the jacking point, I think that may be a good idea.  I am coming to a conclusion, that the majority of you that are feeding me advice in regards to "freezing in your shack" have learned this lesson the hard way:)...  I had a wheel house out there for the past 3-4 years that weighted about 3K lbs, never had an issue.  the only reason I dumped my wheel house was the snow depth and always having to use a makeshift ski setup on the wheels to move it.

 

 I take extreme caution just because of this.  I am notorious for excessive blocking and only live 45 minutes away from my cabin so getting there is not an issue.  I will also state, my lake is about 1000 acres and I am the only permanent on the lake for the most part, plus my crappie spot is only 1/4 mile from my cottage.  I am not dragging this shack all over the lake and hitting drifts, but feel confident if I wanted to I could. 

 

Thanks Folks, love to hear where any of you have found places to buy HDPE.  I know Menards sells it, but from what I am seeing they just sell it in short lengths.

[Hawg]

Did you try Grainger? If you know someone with a commercial account their prices are pretty reasonable and their service and stock is top shelf. I've broken as many skids just hitting those small hard drifts while being careful as trying to jerk it out of ice. A little bit of overbuilding on them will be worth trying to fix them on the ice. It's only my humble opinion but I would never use skids without a brace between them both in the front and back. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Hawg

[perchking]

The majority of the aluminum has arrived, the build should start next week.  I am going to go with 2 runners initially, once framed up I will check for strength and rigidity.  If I need to add the 3rd runner, I will.

[Hawg]

There's millions of 8 x fish houses out there on 2 skids, I think you'll be fine. Are you using 2x6's for the floor on 16 inch centers and running the plywood the right way? I only say 2x6 because weight usually isn't a factor on a skid house and they make a rock solid floor, but it is probably overkill to many.  I still think you should brace them though.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Hawg

[perchking]

no wood in this house hawg, all aluminum.  Based on the calculations the fabricators came up with the floor joists will be 2 foot on center and are going to be 1.5x3 using 1/4 stock. They claim that will be a overkill but time will tell.

[Hawg]

Overkill is good, fixing things at -20 is bad.

[tysonsalla]

Perchking, I'm just starting to finish my 8x10 house build. I used 2x6x.25 thick with a 6"wide .25 plate for the runner with hdpe riveted to the plate. I put about a 3" bead every foot on both sides of the runners then I caulked the joint to prevent ice from stressing the aluminum between the 2. My floor joists are 2x2x.25 2' on center. If I build another I may move them into 16" or 20" oc to remove the bit of flex it has but it isn't bad. 

[tysonsalla]

[perchking]

Looks great tysonsalla, I have a couple of questions for you:

Where did you get your  hdpe?

Why did you go with 2x2 for the floor joist vs 1.5x3 (.25)?

Did you spray foam it, if so did you put a sheet of aluminum on the bottom of the floor joists?

Where did you get your door?

What was your final weight?

 

Sorry being in N Wis, I am having difficulties finding some of these types of materials.

 

Looks super nice, I cant wait to start on mine.

[tysonsalla]

You can get 1/4 hdpe from menards. A 4x8 sheet is around 45 dollars. It is in their specialty sheet area with the cabinet grade plywood. I didn't spray foam it. It would be nice, but I got all of the sheet foam for free except 2 sheets. Around here you will pay about 1.50 per square foot per inch which will give you an R6. Mine is lined with 2 inch for an R10. The door came from northern unclaimed freight, same door ice castle uses. Haven't weighed it yet, have to finish off the inside with 5/16 tongue and groove then I will have my dad bring his load cells to weigh it. Its use will be similar to yours, stay on 1 or 2 lakes all winter with some moving around. Good luck on the build.

Tyler

[perchking]

The floor is just about done, the two tube skis are complete and the floor is tack welded, should have a full floor by the weekend if I get some time. I will get some pics up in the next day or so. 

 

While i I was thinking of the flooring I cringed at the weight of marine plywood for the flooring. I was thinking about using cedar, I have enough left over from my chick coop build to finish the floor.  My thought process is it should be lighter, I already paid for it and I don't need to cover it with carpet or rubber which adds weight and cost. My cedar I have is 1x6-8-10s in 12 foot lengths. It's not shiplap, Howe ever I could make it fairly easy. Not sure I would need it as I am spray foaming all sides anway. I also realize it will stain with water and slime, but it is only a fish house. Thoughts?

[Hawg]

With all that time and money you've already spent don't do something you'll end up regretting. Be sure, and if it's "only a fish house" go for it. You should be proud of that house, it's nice. 

[perchking]

i actually think cedar may look nicer than the rest of the coverings (at least for a while), is not about cutting corners hawg it's about weight and logic:)

 

I will most likely not do this, as I have yet to find anybody who had tried this.  I am assuming it's because of the cost of the cedar, but like I said I already bought mine so I am would be out nothing.  Maybe I should sell the cedar to fund the ice house...

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

6 hours ago, perchking said:

i actually think cedar may look nicer than the rest of the coverings (at least for a while), is not about cutting corners hawg it's about weight and logic:)

 

I will most likely not do this, as I have yet to find anybody who had tried this.  I am assuming it's because of the cost of the cedar, but like I said I already bought mine so I am would be out nothing.  Maybe I should sell the cedar to fund the ice house...

Let'r buck!  I think it's a great idea!

[leech~~]

On 10/3/2016 at 8:42 PM, tysonsalla said:

That is a thing of Beauty right there. 

I would love to have one. If I had the time, money, skills, tools, work space, off season storage, and the right wife!