Don't forget to train the other trainer too!!!

[BLACKJACK]

Picked up a female black lab puppy at the end of December. Named her Abby. It was your typical lab pup, rambunctious, into everything, attention span of a knat, you'd throw a ball or toy and it would chase it a couple of times, then it would be bored. We have outdoor kennels, since it was wintertime, I set up an indoor kennel in my heated shop, with a port-a-kennel and cushions in it for the puppy to call home, with wood chips on part of the floor on part of the kennel so it could do its duties, worked good.  My wife would get up early in the morning before work and play with the puppy, feed it, etc. and get the 4 year old lab out too. In the evening it would get plenty of attentions, go for walks, I'd try to do a little Sit and leash training, working on the potty training, try to throw a few dummies, play with it. My wife would mention doing some leash work, Sit and Stay, etc I'm kind of leery of the Stay part because it doesn't even Sit that well but i'm thinking shes the one getting up early in the morning, be quiet or else I'd be doing it.

Its now 16 weeks/4 months old, in the last week or two we both noticed that the pup was getting 'wimpy', didn't want to do anything besides sit in your lap, it was very unsure of itself. I'd had it into the vet last week for its second round of shots, was it sick? Or what? Quizzing out my wife, asking her what shes up to in the morning, i found out that shes been getting tough with it, every time it would get into something it was 'NO'.  She'd also been using treats when doing the Sit thing. I was wondering why Abby would sit for her and not for me but let it go, thinking my wife is getting up early, just shut up.  

Had a heart to heart talk with my wife, told her to make it fun!!! Praise the pup!! Play with pup!!! No more NO!!! Just take away what she doesn't want ripped up!!! No Stay until she does the Sit command every time.  Praise the pup!!!  This is out 6th lab pup, you'd think it would be routine by now!!! We've also started giving Abby more individual time, I'd notice that the older dog was really dominating her, wouldn't let her play or chase anything. 

The whole thing just pizzes me off!!! Here I wanted a happy positive pup and now I've got a little wimp because my wife decides that it has to behave like an adult dog.

Make sure you talk to your other in-house trainers!!!

 

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by BLACKJACK

[leech~~]

Has your wife tried the rolled up New paper training yet?

[Ufatz]

What a shame. You'd think after having had a few other pups around there would be a family routine. From now on ONE trainer and some time for just you and the dog alone.

You can buy all kinds of "training aids" now and while I have nothing against them a great many dogs were trained, and well,   before the DVD ever came along.  Same with the E-collars.  They have there place but I fear many of them are used TOO much and the wrong way. I have one,   the same one I've had for over 15 years and that will give you and idea of how much use it gets.

There are two or three serious  dog guys around the forum who can help you but never forget that YOU can do most of this stuff,,,,,it really is not that hard to do if you have a halfway intelligent dog and remain FIRM and most of all, PATIENT.

[Todd Caswell]

There usually is more to the story and certainly the other side of the story but, from what i have read I don't see anything wrong wit what your wife has done, at 4 monthes old if they can"t handle some form of verbal and physical correction then you may be right you may have a as you call it "wimp", I call it a soft dog,  on your hands and they can be much harder to train than the opposite. Them understanding NO is just as important as understanding GOOD. And to me stay is a redundant command, sit means sit until told to do other wise, I haven't told a dog to stay in 20 years.

[Todd Caswell]

Here's a short training session with a 15 week old puppy, Iv'e raised my last 4 puppy's following the "hillman" method and it gives the puppy's a very solid base to build on by the time there ready for more formal training, and yes my wife does these sessions with the puppy's as well. 

 

 

 

 

[Ufatz]

Todd be right about the "sit" and "stay" thing.  My dogs sit and stay.  Sit and STAY

Funny thing:   I told Jake to SIT and then walked on  after bumping into a guy I knew who was also out in the big slough.  We reached the road, climbed up out of the ditch and my acquaintance said "Are you going to get your dog?"

I looked around and here was Jake......way the hell out there in the golden/brown grass....that big  shiny black beautiful block head staring right at me as if asking "Hey,  what the hell.....how about me!!"

Love 'em all.

[BLACKJACK]

On 2/18/2016 at 4:50 PM, Todd Caswell said:

There usually is more to the story and certainly the other side of the story but, from what i have read I don't see anything wrong wit what your wife has done, at 4 monthes old if they can"t handle some form of verbal and physical correction then you may be right you may have a as you call it "wimp", I call it a soft dog,  on your hands and they can be much harder to train than the opposite. Them understanding NO is just as important as understanding GOOD. And to me stay is a redundant command, sit means sit until told to do other wise, I haven't told a dog to stay in 20 years.

Todd, You are right, Stay is just and extension of Sit, its just a matter of what command you use. To me Sit is when I'm walking them on the leash, you tell them to Sit and you stand there, then you command Heel and you walk onward, getting them used to walking on that side, going around trees etc, Sit again and they Sit as long as you stand there, when they Sit every time on command is when I move onto Stay, arm outstretched in a stop sign.  I spend a lot of time walking them on the leash doing Heel and Sit because I want a dog that will obey those commands off the leash, when we're pheasant hunting and we're approaching a willow patch, I want them to Heel until we get there.

As far as NO goes, I think its a fine line between letting the pup play and keeping themselves from harming themselves or wrecking something.  If they are tearing up a piece of cardboard, at  a young age, I'll let them play or just take it away from them. If they're getting ready to chew on a chair cushion or an extension cord, then No is appropriate.  I know my wife, No is going to come out of her mouth a lot more often then praise, I think that was part of the problem, more NO than praise, Abby was getting confused, didn't know what she was supposed to do.  Train the trainer.

As far as a wimpy puppy, we will see.  She comes from a really good breeding so I have to think that its my fault if she doesn't turn out. Shes not ruined yet, we had a good weekend, we've taken a step back, making things fun, then doing some training with lots of praise.

You're not going to like it when I say this, but I know that my first lab many years ago was a male, hard headed SOB, wouldn't listen worth a dam, you had to get really tough with him to convince him not to do something. Since then I've always gotten females, feeling they they 'listen' better, would take a lecture to heart.  This pup may make me rethink that strategy.

 

On 2/19/2016 at 7:43 PM, Ufatz said:

Todd be right about the "sit" and "stay" thing.  My dogs sit and stay.  Sit and STAY

Funny thing:   I told Jake to SIT and then walked on  after bumping into a guy I knew who was also out in the big slough.  We reached the road, climbed up out of the ditch and my acquaintance said "Are you going to get your dog?"

I looked around and here was Jake......way the hell out there in the golden/brown grass....that big  shiny black beautiful block head staring right at me as if asking "Hey,  what the hell.....how about me!!"

Love 'em all.

Good story!! 

 

On 2/18/2016 at 5:30 PM, Todd Caswell said:

Here's a short training session with a 15 week old puppy, Iv'e raised my last 4 puppy's following the "hillman" method and it gives the puppy's a very solid base to build on by the time there ready for more formal training, and yes my wife does these sessions with the puppy's as well. 

 

 

 

 

Nice video!!!

I could relate when I saw the puppy drop the dummy a few feet short, always tough to get them to bring it the last few feet and deliver to hand!!!  Another problem is that they want to 'keep' the dummy for themselves, until I they learn that I want it delivered to me every time I do most of my dummy training indoors where I can control the situation.

 

 

[Todd Caswell]

I don't make a big deal out of them dropping the bumper untill they have been FF, I encourage them to keep the bumper in there mouth and to deliever to hand, and it does get better as we teach hold even to a very young puppy before formal FF begins but untill I have put them through the FF process I really have no tools to make them do it. As far as not brining it back I would say 90% of them will go through this stage at some point and it usually is around the same time they decide they don't want to come when called either. From the time they are 8 weeks old until they are through the "yard" process they always have a check cord on them during any training session. And with a couple really bad one's that din't want to come when called I have Collar conditioned them to "here" as early as 5 monthes. One trick that works with puppy's not wanting to bring it back is to get in an area that is fenced or a small room and make a game out of it with two bumpers or balls toss a bumper or tennis and as soon as the puppy is almost back to you toss the other one, they figure it out pretty quik that the faster they get back another one is thrown, befor you know it they will be tossing the first one at you to get the other one, when they start doing this I stop and go back to one bumper. Or alot of times if you have a second bumper in your hand and start twirling it around as they are starting to come back it helps as well..

[BLACKJACK]

Todd,

I noticed right away that you were twirling a second dummy on your video, I'll have to try that. 

My 4 year old lab, when she was younger, when I threw dummies for her, she'd practically 'throw it at you' when she came back, interesting that you'd also mention that.

One thing I've learned over the years, with different puppies is that they're all different, they all have different challenges.  I've always said, if they're not doing what I expect they probably don't understand, step back, think it thru, I'm smarter than they are. I had one that didn't want to come to you at a very young age, she'd just sit and look at you. At a really young age, at the age where most puppies will tumble into your lap. With some coaxing and playing 'spin the puppy' she got over it. Now Abby really wants to be in the back of the truck with the older dog, when she jumps in Abby will streeeeeetch out and get her paws on the tailgate and I boost her up, I've never had a pup do that for me without some coaxing, its kind of cute actually, this small pup stretched up to the tailgate.

One common problem, and you mentioned it, is that age when they don't want to come to you. My first pup 30 years ago, I just put on a pair of tennis shoes and ran him down. Then I put on a check cord and we went for a long walk, he learned that Come means come back every time. Now this one is getting to that point. Drives me crazy. We spend a lot of time in my heated shop, we're finishing up the potty training, we haven't had an accidents for a couple of weeks, but now she gets to the point when its time to come back she'd rather go underneath the evergreens and look for rabbit defecate.  I've even had a few times when she runs to the door, I go out with her, and she runs right to the evergreens -- whos training who??   I've got a check cord ready to go but since we're having a 'confidence' problem I haven't used it yet on our walks but I'm thinking its time.

We'll get thru this, sometimes its two steps back and one step forward.

 

[DANR]

I have then opposite problem. All of our dogs become Momma's little baby. Except when they misbehave - then it's my fault for not spending enough time with them. 

Edited March 2, 2016 by DANR

[BLACKJACK]

Bump.

What I thought was my wife being to rough on the pup was a problem with her jaw, see my post on craniomandibular osteopathy.