Lottery deer gun & ML

[harvey lee]

Don't forget the June deadline to apply in the lottery.

[marine_man]

Good call... deadline is tomorrow!

marine_man

[LMITOUT]

Lottery in progress...

[harvey lee]

Yes, in progress and I figure I will wait for my e-mail, sorry, you will have more preference points again for next year.

Oh well, have to wait for the deer herd to rebound.

[LMITOUT]

Yeah, this is my fifth year applying, I believe, and although my odds are increasing I still don't have high expectations to draw one. Only two NR's tags available in my unit again.

With the low deer numbers I haven't been all that disappointed the past few years when I haven't been drawn, although there is a monster mule that I've been seeing and would really like to see him on my wall.

[harvey lee]

It's only year 3 for me, not many preference points and 4 tags for our zone. at 5 years, you have a good amount of times in the drawing but with only 2 tags for NR hunters, it's all left to pure luck, guy in the drawing for the first time could get pulled if lucky.

I at times do not understand how they figure the deer herd. I have hunted the same land for close to 30 years and yes, it is down from 10 years ago when the numbers were at their highest but the last 3 years, we have seen nice increases in the herd but our zone tag numbers still go down. Guess they are rebuilding the herd to higher numbers.

The Twist of Fate hunt I guide for each year has had it's highest kill rate success in the past 3 years for the handicapped archers. It will take some time to get the nicer bucks back but the doe numbers are good.

10 years ago, we simply had way too many deer for the area, a medium winter would kill off deer as there was simply not enough food for the numbers.

[CANOPY SAM]

Harvey. It's been a number of years since I went back to our family's hunting/farm land in central NoDak to hunt waterfowl and deer. I'm thinking of taking my two boys (in Minnesota) and my son-in-law "to be" (currently active military in NoDak) out there this fall for hunting.

4-5 years ago I would simply wait for the last lottery to end, then buy up a couple remaining doe tags for our zone at a greatly reduced price. After reviewing the ND hunting regs I don't see where this is an option any longer? We've always hunted in 2K2, and there used to always be 100's of left over doe tags post lottery.

Also, it's been near 5 years now since I purchased non-resident waterfowl hunting licenses. If I'm doing the math correctly it looks like all the certificates and stamps will cost me and my 18 yr old son almost $300! Does that sound about right?

Seems like North Dakota is making it darn near impossible, or at least extremely expensive for non-residents to hunt there anymore?

[harvey lee]

Yes and your NR deer rifle tag will run you close to $300 with the certificate and all. ND use to be a reasonable state to hunt deer in as a NR but it seems they also have decided they do not need NR hunters and with the few tags that area available and then the price for those, NR hunting will all but come to an end.

Guess outstate dollars for the business people mean about nothing.

I had 3 friends who use to go to ND for both pheasants and waterfowl. well after all the rule changes and price hikes, they now go to another state that is more NR friendly.

I know our zone now has I believe 4 licenses for the NR hunter, that is a lot!!!

[KEN W]

Sam.....4-5 years ago you could buy a doe tag after all the draws for $50.....basically as many as you wanted.Then there was 150,000 tags available.....this year there are less than 50,000 tags.Now all tags are gone after the first draw except SW of Bismarck.

Harvey.....not that we don't like NR.But there were over 40,000 resident deer hunters that did not draw a rifle tag last year.The philosophy here is basically residents come first.

Some would eliminate all NR tags when the herd is down this much.That was 1 of the suggestions at the deer meetings I went to last fall.Only the legislature can do that.The law says 1% can go to NR.Plus NR landowner tags are subtracted from the 1%. Also G/O tags are subtracted.

In some units there are no tags left over and NR are still applying because they don't take the time to find out how many are left.

I want to hunt mule 1 more time before I'm to old to do it physically.Most likely that means I don't hunt deer at all for 4-6 years before I get the number of points to up my odds enough to finally get one.Hopefully the winters will be milder so the number can increase.

[harvey lee]

I understand the drop in numbers Ken, but the price also seems to keep rising. ND was always a state that didn't seem to follow the others in regards to bumping up the fee for NR hunters. Be it deer, the change in waterfowl, seems things are not going in the direction of keeping NR hunters in the state.

I would guess that when the legislature in ND meets again, there will be a change in how many tags go to NR hunters. If they drop it any lower, may as well just eliminate NR deer tags. When the deer herd increases, these issues could all go away.

I have mentioned this one other time but the reason I say ND does not care about the NR hunter, I talked with the Chief honcho at a hunt a few years back when ND had a lot of tags for deer that they could not get rid of, I asked him, any chance NR would ever increase those numbers or percentage for the NR, his response was no. I would think some money for wasted tags would be better than no sale. Yes, one could always get a doe tag in the extra drawings after the first 2 on a first come, first serve basis, if they are there but zero chance at any leftover buck tags.

I realize ND can choose and pick who will get what tags but it appears that some tags cannot be had by a NR hunter. This is why I state that ND could really care less about the NR hunter.

Yes, at 40,000 tags, the R hunter should have first choice but if we look back not that long ago, 2G1 had leftover buck tags but the NR had zero chance at them when there were more tags in this zone that they could even get rid of. Many years there were plenty of tags and most all if not all got a buck tag. I know my dad never went without a buck tag and all his buddies drew one every year and still there were leftovers but no chance a NR could get one of the extras due to the 1%. I do not remember but I believe the guides get half of that 1% also so it really does not leave much for buck tags or even doe tags.

I remember when the NT tag was like $100 and I would go through a outfitter I knew and got a tag for myself and my son for $500. he was giving us a real deal as most all the outfitters want $500 plus for each buck tag out of that 1%. I would not even want to ask what the cost of those tags are today. I won't pay a $1,000 for a deer tag.

Surely do not want to argue about this, just stating what I have noticed over the years as a NR hunter.

Just my observation in the past 30 years.

[brittman]

The state of ND needs little extra money right now, although the state better make sure that the infrastructure is being re-established to handle the influx of road repair, crime control, etc... While the oil industry certainly puts money in the coffers, they certainly tax the land, the water, the roads, and the communities in their path.

Harvey ... nothing personal, but glad to see the outfitter loophole you were using has dried up or was shutdown. The purpose of the outfitter tag was to ensure they had a tag or two so they could fill their lodge in November ... not resell licenses.

[CANOPY SAM]

Thanks for the info guys. Yes, the post earlier regarding $50.00 doe tags post lottery. That's exactly what I did for several years. It was actually kind of kitty wampus cause guys were paying $100+ dollars for tags during the lottery, then post-lottery you could simply buy almost limitless doe tags for $50.00 per depending on how many were left over per zone. Anyway.....it was a huge bonus to go out for birds in November, and take home a couple fat does to boot! Bummer that's not an option anymore.

I completely understand why NoDak wants to protect the hunting resources from non-residents, but honestly, I've hunted NoDak for a long time (or at least I did years back), and from my experience it was very, very localized hunting pressure, and the majority of the habitat hardly saw a hunter all season (resident or non-resident).

I truly believe the ND Game and Fish Dept is doing a dis-service to all the little ag communities in central NoDak by making it so difficult, and so expensive for non-residents to hunt birds and big game there. The hotels and motels in Harvey and Carrington, and all around our family land used to be full all Oct with bird hunters...most from out of state! I'd bet the farm that's not the case anymore!

Guess I'll have to figure a way to get a gratis permit next year for hunting our family land. I've never gone that route before, but I imagine I could make it happen if I push all the right buttons.

Additionally, if non-resident waterfowl hunting is going to cost my son and I $300+ each I'm not so sure it's worth THAT much money to hunt NoDak! What a bummer! I'd love to take my two sons, and my son-in-law out there, but the cost is going to be just too prohibitive. What a tragedy. Especially for a state that is making SO much money right now thru other venues.

[harvey lee]

I agree Canopy Sam that the small local business people have felt this with fewer nr hunters. Motels, cafe's, gas stations and on and on lose out with less nr hunters.

Brittman, I do not know if that loophole was shut down at all, I simply refuse to pay that much for 1 deer tag so I quite applying for them.

[harvey lee]

Good luck to everyone. I checked about 15 minutes ago and it said I have zero preference points for next year, must mean at least hopefully I pulled a tag. have to wait till the drawing is complete to know for sure 100%.

[harvey lee]

You can now check for the drawing, buy, talk about a horseshoe up the you know what, I applied for a buck 1st choice and a doe 2nd, pulled the buck tag.

[LMITOUT]

No luck here, although that's hardly a surprise.

I'd be curious to know how many NR apps there are per unit. All I know is that I'm going to have A LOT of ping pong balls in the hopper next year.

[harvey lee]

I saw once on their HSOforum where they showed those numbers Dan, but I believe it was after the lottery and I do not remember exactly where on the HSOforum I found it.

Still 2,300 tags left for flat tops if you don't mind shooting one, taste good if you are in a zone with tags left.

[LMITOUT]

I'm pretty sure there won't be any doe tags in my unit since they already chopped the number quite a bit already. Does that count towards your preference points? I'm not going to risk losing the years of points that I've accumulated for a split-tail.

I want to say that the North Dakota Outdoors magazine had the breakdown of the deer lottery last year, but I'm not certain. Might be online somewhere too. I was just curious how many applied for my unit, but once you throw in the preference point variable it would be tough to figure out what my odds actually were at getting one of the whopping two tags that were available. My odds of winning the Power Ball were probably better. ha.

[harvey lee]

Yes with the low numbers and the few NR tags available the lottery is better odds. This year, for some reason I just got plain lucky.

I talked to 4 residents that usually hunt rifle with us and they pulled nothing. Talked to another resident buddy last night, their group of 6 received zero also.

We still need another 2-3 very soft winters to get back to a herd where there will be more tags available for all.

[candiru]

The remaining are available to residents only:

"More than 2,300 antlerless deer gun licenses remain. Only resident applicants who were unsuccessful in the first lottery can apply for remaining licenses.

The first lottery application process – deer gun, muzzleloader, youth and landowner – had more than 94,000 applicants, and 46,000 were unsuccessful.

An option for unsuccessful applicants to apply online for remaining licenses will be available Aug. 6. Paper applications for remaining licenses will be mailed to individuals Aug. 11. The deadline for applying is Sept. 3."

http://gf.nd.gov/news/deer-lottery-held-antlerless-licenses-remain-1

[UpperSippi]

I’m ready to start looking elsewhere to hunt. I grew up in ND and always loved the state, but I now have 6 preference points going into next year’s lottery to give you an idea of how long it’s been since I was able to draw a tag.

I got excited to see that there were leftover doe tags, but now that I see candiru's post that it is for residents only, that bubble is burst. Ugh.

[harvey lee]

Must be new, the doe extras for resident only, has always been for anyone on a first come first served.

I NEVER plan on rifle hunting or muzzleloader hunting in ND as it is very hard to get a atg. I have had 1 tag in all the years I have applied for in the muzzleloader season in ND.

My hunts are planned elsewhere and if I get a tag in North Dakota, it a bonus at best.

The laws have been changing and far from good for the NR hunter, it is only a matter of time before a NR will not be allowed to hunt deer the, we are not far from that now if not for getting real lucky every so many years waiting for a higher priced tag. One can always go bow hunting with an over the counter tag but so many have started to9 archery hunt due to not getting a rifle tag, those over the counter tags for NR archers will also come to a halt soon.

Just the way the trend has been going inch by inch, year by year.

Not sure why ND just does not say they do not want any NR hunters instead of the slow game of death they are now using.

People can say this will not happen but follow the trend and if you are honest with yourself, you will agree.

[LMITOUT]

I really can't blame them for the low number of NR tags. IMO residents come first and with the low number of tags overall it's only right that NR tags are kept to a bare minimum. It's sucks, but when I hear about all the residents who didn't get a tag it's hard to complain as a NR applicant.

[CANOPY SAM]

I'm just really disappointed with the whole situation. Last time I was out and hunted family land in central NoDak, I think it was 2009, there were literally hundreds of deer on our property. HUNDREDS! And I'm not exaggerating. But perhaps that was contributing to the current problem?

We had some absolutely beautiful bucks cruising around, and it was actually a fairly decent buck to doe ratio. I really felt the genetics were there to pop some real giants. I shot a 165-inch main frame 12-point that fall, and there were several other very nice bucks working the property.

I only spent $135.00 on all the licenses and certifications required for a non-resident waterfowl hunt that year, and besides the price of the buck tag I pulled, I also took home 2 mature does that fall that only cost me $50.00 each.

Evidently a lot has changed in 5 years. Maybe I'll just take the boys back there for an upland bird hunt? Anyone know if there are any roosters still running around between Carrington and Harvey?

Sorry to hijack the thread. I'm just pretty disgusted that I can't really hunt our family land anymore.

[LMITOUT]

Evidently a lot has changed in 5 years.

It has, and sounds like a similar story as yours in my unit. The last two years deer have been scarce and another reason why I was a bit nervous about drawing a tag. Hate to get one and then not be able to use it because deer are few and far between.