Home defense ammo question

[fishuhalik]

Here's a question for some of you ballistic nuts out there. I use my 9mm for plinking and home defense. I know the +p+ are all the rage right now, I have a few boxes and thats what sits in my gun right now, but are they well suited at all for home defense? I'm thinking of switching to the low recoil, rapid expansion rounds because of the massive penetration of the +p+ rounds. Do you think those low recoil rounds have enough power to do the job, God forbid I ever have to use them for their intended purpose. Do any of you have any data that would support either argument? Thanks for any help

[fishattacker]

I would not get caught up in ballistics when in comes to home defense. This is just my opinion and I am sure other people will say different. I look more at terminal performance of the bullet and shot placement. In the below video it penetrates 15 inches of ballistic gel. If God forbid somebody does enter your home and is a threat and you shoot them center mass, I would say you will be the one standing to live another day.

[chad austin]

+P 9mm rounds are usually 10% more pressure than a standard load and +p+ are typically 18% more pressure than a standard load, with that said there is no SAMMI spec for +p+ so they may be higher/lower than 18%.

I'm just curious so don't be offended but is your 9mm rated for +p?

The reason for the low recoil loads is better control of your firearm, meaning follow up shots should be more accurate and quicker.

As far as velocity goes a low recoil load is about 100 FPS slower at the muzzle as well as at 25 yds than a standard 9mm load.

Energy at 25 yards is about 25 foot lbs. lower with the LR vs a standard load.

Personally I wouldn't shoot +p+ for two reasons 1. there is no regulation on them (safety) 2. may void any warranty you might have left on your firearm.

[Tom7227]

a 12 gauge with bird shot will get the job done and has less chance of going through walls.

[fishuhalik]

Chad, no offense taken. I guess I never checked, but I would imagine it is. I had an xd, just sold it yesterday & put in an order on a Walther PPQ. It'll be here in a week & I CAN'T WAIT!!!

Tom, we had the shotgun vs handgun debate before on here. I'm settled on a handgun for many reasons. But that's a discussion for another thread.

[Big A]

Any bullet will do the job. Just put them on target and score some hits. Game over. Doesnt matter what you are using. If your concerned about missing and shooting through some walls.. you should not be taking the shot in the first place.

.410 Judge is an excellent "spray and pray" weapon if concerned on making some hits.

I use a 5.7 x 28mm, .357 Magnum, .380 +p, 9mm. or .22LR All of them are completely equal. Bullet size does not make a difference when "Home Defense" is the argument. SHOT PLACEMENT is the only thing to be concerned with. Put the rounds on target and not through the wall. Done deal.

[fishuhalik]

Fishattacker, awesome vid, thanks!!

[fishuhalik]

Big a, valid points, but what about after you hit your target? That 5.7 was designed to penetrate Kevlar. Even if you hit your target, it's gonna keep going for a while

[Ufatz]

Bad guys with meth filled brains are hard to put down-lots of instances of that.

Mossberg Model #500 Youth. Short and fast. Load one #4 shsot, then one 00 buck, then one slug, then one #4 shot, one more 00 buck, and one last slug. You should be good to take down anything within 15-20 feet, which is likely to be your defensive zone.

An RPG work well too, but make a mess of a guys living room and probably even knock over the fish tank.

[LMITOUT]

R.I.P.

[Gordie]

Hornady Critical Defense is what I use in my carry pc.

I really like that R.I.P that LO posted also but have yet to try it out.

[bobbymalone]

Those RIP things look like they might be ftf jam-o-matic.

Hornady CD's sit in my 9mm.

[fishuhalik]

I'm concerned with the legal ramifications of a round like that. I can see a lib judge & jury (ESP in a state like MN) calling that intent to kill. I obviously don't agree with it, but it's the world we live in

[LMITOUT]

Not sure how it is any different than a Hornaday Critical Defense hollow point.

I've never seen any ammunition marked as "Intent to maime", nor have I seen any legal case which pointed to the fact that the victim aimed for the CNS rather than an appendage, regardless of the type of ammunition they were using when faced with a self defense situation.

Is your life worth a technicality of the law?

I have not fired the R.I.P. as it's very new to the market. I was just putting it out there that it may be the next generation of personal defense ammunition. As mentioned above, I would also recommend the Hornady load.

[Dave S]

I'm concerned with the legal ramifications of a round like that. I can see a lib judge & jury (ESP in a state like MN) calling that intent to kill. I obviously don't agree with it, but it's the world we live in

If someone intends to enter your home uninvited and you pull the trigger, you should have every intent to shoot to kill.

Maybe I'm wrong but if an intruder survives a shot, their chances of winning a law suit against you are greater if they're above ground.

[Gordie]

If someone intends to enter your home uninvited and you pull the trigger, you should have every intent to shoot to kill.

Maybe I'm wrong but if an intruder survives a shot, their chances of winning a law suit against you are greater if they're above ground.

+1

[rockman]

Not interested. Nothing more than marketing hype to sell another 'wonder' defense round. For those that may remember from years ago, how about what happened with the Black Talon ammo? This RIP ammo will fade off into the sunset, after much money is spent by those that just have to try it out. I'll stick with Ranger's, HST's, Golden Sabers, Starfire's, or a couple of other offerings from Corbon, thank you much. Better yet, the ol' 12 gauge with the correct load will do just fine.

[DOOM]

R.I.P.

These rounds are going from $125-$300 for a box of 20 from what I have been seeing on some websites. Talk about a R.I.P. OFF!

[Old Dewjabber]

I'm concerned with the legal ramifications of a round like that. I can see a lib judge & jury (ESP in a state like MN) calling that intent to kill.

Sorry but I do not agree! "USE OF DEADLY FORCE" is just that.

How ever you are right about the libs. No castle doctrine law. You are suppose to flee your home.. I THINK NOT!!!

[Gordie]

Quote:

These rounds are going from $125-$300 for a box of 20 from what I have been seeing on some websites. Talk about a R.I.P. OFF!

First mistake is shopping for the ammo on Those web sites...

Those web sites and people who frequent those places are what help fuel the madness in the first place.

Hornady made a killing with some smart packaging with the advent of the ZOMBIE Apocalypse by introducing the Zombie rounds.

Add them to those popular web sites and watch the price grow!!

[Neighbor_guy]

....Hornady made a killing with some smart packaging with the advent of the ZOMBIE Apocalypse by introducing the Zombie rounds.

...

I got a deal on the zombie rounds last fall. They were the same as the high end varmit rounds only with a green poly tip instead of a red one, and $5 cheeper per box.

Lets just say the Coyotes that got tagged with them stayed tagged...

Back on topic, all my CCW's have critical defence in them. If there is ever a need I want a round that goes bang every time and feeds no matter what.

[DOOM]

First mistake is shopping for the ammo on Those web sites...

No offense taken, but wasn't shopping for them, not at that price! Was just curious about them since my buddy had brought up the subject. I have my rounds for personal defense that will do the same job as these would do if the situation arose....D.O.A.!

[Big A]

Price of ammo for protecting the life of my family is of no concern.. if your worried that the ammo costs too much.. you may be interested for the wrong reasons.

Also +2 for the post regarding "shoot to kill". When I stand in court.. you can be assured i will be the only one testifying. Mn Law provides homeowners the opportunity to protect themselves and their family. There is no paragraph covering the need to "warn" or "wound" the target in defense of your home/family.

[DOOM]

So if I buy a box of that ammo for $125, you'll buy it from me for $300? Trust me, I don't shop for the cheapest ammo out there, but I won't be a sucker to buy way overpriced ammo.

[lawdog]

Hornady Critical Defense in your 9mm is an excellent choice. You don't need +p and I'd never mess with +p+.

As for "shoot to kill", you are best served by always saying that you "shoot to stop the threat", how do you do this? By shooting center mass which is most likely terminal but assuredly a better location to shoot due to the area you have to work with. Shooting an arm doesn't stop the threat and you likely will miss anyway. Are you shooting to kill? No you are shooting to stop the threat! How do you do that? By shooting for the most damaging and also most forgiving spot, center mass. Is it semantics? Probably, but if you are worried about your criminal or civil liability, you should never be proclaiming you are shooting to kill.