Girl Fight!!!

[pushbutton]

For 25 years have owned various hunting and house dogs, always 3 or 4 at time, but currently at a loss of what to do with two girls. Suppose the younger one is challenging the older one and usually just let them work it out as it never went much beyond posturing, teeth, and some crazy tasmanian devil-like growling, Last night however is was a MMA bloodbath. Neither would back down ……. had to do three elbow shots to the head of my own just to get them separated. It was nuts, blood all over, mom freaking out, got bit, kids crying……at least the boring Super Bowl party got some life to it Ended up separating them last night and when they saw each other this morning it was game on again. Soooo, what to do now?

[Don Brinkman]

Interesting problem you may want to get a couple muzzles for starters.

[DrJuice1980]

muzzles until one comes out on top and the other one knows that. but thats the easy way and the fight is pretty much guaranteed to happen again. You need to assert your dominance and not allow that, they are not respecting your authority.

[pushbutton]

First off everyone in the house, human or animal, knows who the top dog in the house is…..Mrs. Pushbutton Yeah, I get what you mean about respecting our authority, but we really do run a pretty tight ship in a pretty calm manner. Like the muzzle idea for the meantime, would have never thought of it, as we literally have had dozens of dogs throughout the years, most rescues, many with issues, and never had something escalate to this level. Wondering if there are any training ideas/methods that specifically address this issue though. No doubt, a broader "who's the boss" reminder will have to be stressed.

[Todd Caswell]

It certainly comes down to you running the show, I don't allow ANY growling or posturing period, and I don't let them work it out. And it's always easiest to bite it in the butt first time you see it rather than letting it escalate.Usualy when it's gotten to this point it's a pretty tough fix, expecially when you have a wife and kids in the mix.. If you know who the instigater is try seperating her a couple weeks, crate, food , water and potty thats it, ignore her completely, make her feel worthless it may change her outlook..

[charliepete]

Females are the worst once they have it out for each other. It can go on until one is dead. I would pick the one you like best and rehome the other. If that isn't an option I would break them up with a pull prod any time they looked cross ways at each other. You saw how rough they got together, if you don't take it up a notch from there it means nothing to them.

[golfer]

You could always try to put a shock collar on each of them (providing they are big enough dogs) and zapp'em if they even so much as look at each other wrong. Another thing to try would be to grab each of the them by the neck and force them to the floor until they relax and submit.

Just a thought.

[LABS4ME]

I disagree... collar is the last thing you want to try... my two cents

Good Luck!

Ken

[nofishfisherman]

With an issue like this that could result in serious injury or death of one of your dogs or a more serious spill over where someone else gets hurt its best not to guess at possible corrective actions.

You can try to reassert your dominance over the two dogs but I'm not convinced that will solve it. Sounds like they aren't challenging you but instead challenging each other to see who is next in line. I also wouldn't use the shock collar. Nor would I expect to be able to grab two angry dogs and force them both down at the same time and hold them there until they calm down. Even if you could that merely stops the current behavior but doesn't do anything to correct the underlying issue. You'd have to keep playing referee indefinitely which is a dangerous situation to have to put yourself in.

I'd suggest talking to professional trainers in a case like this. The potential outcomes are too serious to rely on guess work and trial and error.

It could be something as simple as these two dogs just not getting along. In which case the only solution is to find a new home for one of them. If it were me that is what I'd do. Its the only way to know 100% for sure that the behavior will never be repeated. If you do find a new home for one of the dogs just make sure to alert the new family that the dog doesn't always get along with other dogs. The behavior could easily resurface with another dog in the future.

[DrJuice1980]

The dogs certainly do not look at the owners as leaders. They are not respecting anybody in that home. There is nothing in their minds to control their behavior because in their mind the presence of a leader is void. In your home (through the dogs eyes) there should be you and everybody else meaning that subconsciously they are programmed to not interfere with your power. A fight interferes with that power. It doesn't sound playful. In that sense they are challenging you because there is no understanding of your dominance.

Its never a "Dog just doesn't get along with other dogs" issue. That is not a theory, that is flat out false. The dog just doesn't understand the pecking order and has never been shown boundaries. Show what those boundaries are. Crack that whip immediately if you see something beginning.

Take them for a walk together and assert your control as the leader. Get a few pinch collars. Just because you tell them to sit and they sit doesn't mean they think your the one in control.

To them they are simply fighting for control over the house. YOUR HOUSE!

[nofishfisherman]

Its never a "Dog just doesn't get along with other dogs" issue. That is not a theory, that is flat out false.

You're right, I should have clarified that a little more. Dogs don't simply dislike another dog for no reason. However, sometimes the reason is beyond our ability to perceive and correct. Many times I've seen 2 dogs with zero prior history (never met before) begin showing aggression towards each other right away (within seconds of first sniff). In simple terms it can be said that the 2 dogs simply don't get along. In reality there is probably some deep seeded primal reason for it (mismatched temperament, wrong scent, odd behavioral issue, whatever...) but we probably will never know the cause so saying they simply don't get along is more of a catch all for the reasons we don't understand or are unaware of.

In this case its not likely that the dogs just don't get along as there is too much history, there is almost certainly an underlying dominance issue. However, saying that you simply need to take back control of the house is way over simplifying the dominance structure. If you are 100% established as the alpha that still doesn't automatically eliminate any rivalry between the subordinate dogs. There is a hierarchy among the dogs below that can sometimes lead to issues.

Can you pin point any trigger points for the fights? Are they fighting over a resource (food, water, toys, territory, attention)? You can be inadvertently triggering aggression by how you distribute resources, causing one dog to challenge the other. Its a complicated issue and there is no way any of us here know the dogs or situation well enough to determine the right course of action. Do a google search for sibling rivalry in dogs and you'll find a lot of information about it. Perhaps you can pin point some of the triggers with the dogs and perhaps some of your own actions that might be adding to the aggression.

[pushbutton]

Just seems that the younger one who is a border collie has just become "border collie" fixated lately on the older one. The older one has big time hip problems and is pain, crabby, and is sick of it….. and lashes out…..not really bad, but teeth showing and verbally. In the past the younger backed off, but not the other night, and now almost appears to looking for the trouble.

So far have dropped the hammer, and as mentioned above did the leashing and walking them each with us asserting big time dominance and correcting if they started squawking. After a few days of this they mellowed a little. They are now unleashed, but now each one will go to their respective "time out" corner if they show any signs of being a spazz. The young one is spending a good part of the day in time out. The older one gets thrown in once in a while, while our big dopey male is just loving this as he gets all the attention and treats So far better, but yeah, who knows if we'll be able to trust them alone again. Guess we will just keep working on it for a while and see what happens. Can't imagine mom would ever part with either….me in a heartbeat though

[DrJuice1980]

Disciplined walks are going to be your greatest tool. If you do not have them I would suggest a pinch collar for fast correction. Never a bad idea to get them in a submissive position after those iffy situations and make them stay there. You also need to walk a fine line in regards to power/control/dominance. If youre too aggressive you will strike fear in them and they will become afraid of their own shadow and piddle pee at odd times. They are looking and craving balance, they are hardwired to have balance in their life and if its not there they will do what they have to to control that and that's the lashing out on each other that happened. Remember, its your house, your domain. You invite them in to be part of YOUR pack. Create the boundaries for the relationships and you will be just fine. Its never too late either.

[minky]

Any updates on the two girls and their dislike for each other?

[pushbutton]

About 2 days later, Mrs. pushbutton figured it would be a good idea to leave them unattended since progress was being made….not hard to figure out where this is ends up going….another smack down. Good thing about it is at least we are finally on the same page now. Both are still on tight leash with the younger one's even tighter. She basically is not allowed out of her corner and probably will be there for a little while……we'll see what happens.

[Duffman]

She basically is not allowed out of her corner and probably will be there for a little while we'll see what happens.

Mrs. pushbutton??

[DrJuice1980]

Being that they fight with or without you present there is no clear leader in their minds. Asserting yourself as the dominate one is going to take 2 things, consistency and time. I like the "allowed" statement. More of that attitude is going to need to be shown. All it should take is a look from you to get them to react the way you want them to. Say on top of it and make your presence felt.

[brittman]

I have had four female Brittanys with up to 3 living in the house at one time. They tussle often and I know they are sorting out the hierarchy thing ... but they are also best buddies. Never once saw anything escalate.

They sometimes act a little nervous when asked to line up for photos with dead birds, but they adjust quickly to that too.