APR again REALLY!

[HandGunner]

So the deal was 3 years of APR and that was not good enough so they continued it in the 300 series areas again? Its quite funny how I noticed there are less doe seen in the woods now since the whole heard in our area are small poor quality spikes and a few 8-10 pointers and again very dirty poor racks from any aged deer. Its sad to see our area population drop because the only thing we can shoot are doe. Maybe they should study our woods and see how the gene pool cannot produce anything better than mostly spikes, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, pointers and a few poor quality any aged 8 pointers and up. I do not understand how this was suppose to help when our woods have suffered from it. I guess ppl are focusing on trophys and quality television hunting show type bucks not knowing they basicly killed all the doe in our woods and left very few deer to even look at anymore.

[96trigger]

I don't know where you are hunting but in the 300 area I hunt, the deer population seems very good with a healthy herd. I would say judging by scouting trips, deer in fields, and trail camera picks that its going well where I am at. I'm actually surprised and relived we are not intensive harvest.

What area are you hunting?

[tfran123]

So the deal was 3 years of APR and that was not good enough so they continued it in the 300 series areas again? Its quite funny how I noticed there are less doe seen in the woods now since the whole heard in our area are small poor quality spikes and a few 8-10 pointers and again very dirty poor racks from any aged deer. Its sad to see our area population drop because the only thing we can shoot are doe. Maybe they should study our woods and see how the gene pool cannot produce anything better than mostly spikes, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, pointers and a few poor quality any aged 8 pointers and up. I do not understand how this was suppose to help when our woods have suffered from it. I guess ppl are focusing on trophys and quality television hunting show type bucks not knowing they basicly killed all the doe in our woods and left very few deer to even look at anymore.

Even if you are anti APR I think those that share your opinion would have a hard time climbing aboard your observations and take them for fact. Quite a stretch, love the part about the gene pool cannot produce anything better than 3,4,5,6 & 7 pointers, wow, just wow.

[HNTNBUX]

I find that very amusing. I have only seen one adult 7 point buck and even that is a legal deer. I have yet to see an adult, more than 1.5 yrs, with 6 points or less. Now I have seen deer with broken racks but that is not genetic.

[mntatonka]

I find that very amusing. I have only seen one adult 7 point buck and even that is a legal deer. I have yet to see an adult, more than 1.5 yrs, with 6 points or less. Now I have seen deer with broken racks but that is not genetic.

How do you know? Do you judge based on the thickness of the antlers? Or by the size of the body? Maybe by how many points he has? Heck, maybe even because his nose is a little darker?

Or do you lasso them and pull their teeth out to age them? Because that's the only way to accurately and consistently get a deer's age

[HNTNBUX]

I'm sorry. Where did you get your wildlife degree from?

[mntatonka]

I'm sorry. Where did you get your wildlife degree from?

same place you did I'm sure.

[HandGunner]

Its quite funny how my dad got his big 12 point ppl tell me will score 150 plus but its funny how thts one of only 3 i heard in our area ppl have been trying to get for the last 5 years, my cousins hunt their every single weekend from archery open to firearms open and muzzleloader we hunt in 348. Im no expert but my elders have been hunting there for about 20 years now and since then they have all notice the poor gene pool for racks funny how some ppl tell me i cant age a deer to save my life but its funny when a small poor 8 point from our woods outsizes and outweighs your "trophy" 10 point... Yes 300 zones have had tons of deer but shortly after the apr been issued our neck of the woods has dropped in doe population, if only ppl knew how many small racked deer make up the population in our spot they would think twice, having a small 7 point buck outweigh my dads giant twelve by only a few pounds is still very signifigant in proving the kind of age and rack size they can have

[HandGunner]

Its quite funny how my dad got his big 12 point ppl tell me will score 150 plus but its funny how thts one of only 3 i heard in our area ppl have been trying to get for the last 5 years, my cousins hunt their every single weekend from archery open to firearms open and muzzleloader we hunt in 348. Im no expert but my elders have been hunting there for about 20 years now and since then they have all notice the poor gene pool for racks funny how some ppl tell me i cant age a deer to save my life but its funny when a small poor 8 point from our woods outsizes and outweighs your "trophy" 10 point... Yes 300 zones have had tons of deer but shortly after the apr been issued our neck of the woods has dropped in doe population, if only ppl knew how many small racked deer make up the population in our spot they would think twice, having a small 7 point buck outweigh my dads giant twelve by only a few pounds is still very signifigant in proving the kind of age and rack size they can have

Btw theres a smaller woods 30 mins away from our spot which they have all hunted all my elders 2 times only and those 2 times were all taxidermy years because the racks were so nice and beautiful in that set of woods, but it was very over crowded with hunters so that shows again how different one place can be

[CodyDawg]

Sounds to me like you are overhunting your area in the extreme and the healthy deer have bailed. I am not surprised at all that you arent seeing quality deer if you hunt it every weekend all season long. Your anecdotal evidence is not evident across a larger area. Probably something else in the works and you should be looking for other reasons as APR does not cause unhealthy herds.

[muskiemanAD]

If you are hunting every weekend from bow through late season a few things. The big bucks have left the area from all the pressure or they are not moving during daylight. Your area does have older bucks but with human scent in the area all the time, well they aren't showing during daylight... Size has really no bearing on the age of a buck that is killed during the gun season. The little ones that weigh a lot are probably doing next to no rutting where the big 12 your Dad shot had probably been rutting/chasing for the last 2 weeks and ate minimum food and lost 30-40 lbs. I have hunted all over SE Mn and have yet to see a area that has nothing bigger then 8's.

[Wanderer]

Agreed.

I've witnessed both deer and turkeys pushed off 150 acres of private SE MN property due to to being over pressured. The property has everything on it - water, food, cover but when it gets overworked there are other places for the critters to go.

Going scouting and hanging stands in the area this weekend. Full on scent elimination and stealth movements will be the order of the day this close to season.

[pikerliker]

I would add that lower doe populations are a logical result of the regulation. That really shouldn't surprise anybody. All in all that should make for a healthier deer herd as a whole with fewer deer and doe's overall, but with more bucks that have better than average racks than you had before when there were just large numbers of deer. It's pretty hard to have both large numbers of deer AND lots of big racks. I guess it's what you're preference is. Personally I'm more of a meat hunter than a trophy hunter, but I would be thrilled to shoot a big racked buck. I don't have a problem with the regulation and would actually like to see it played out for a while longer to see what happens.

[Wanderer]

Just got back a little while ago from prepping for opener. I have to say we're definitely not seeing the numbers of deer we have in the past - like 10 years ago. I realize the heat likely kept them in the cool dark places where you can't see them but 2 guys, and about a full day over the course of the last two, and we saw a total of 4. 1 fawn, 1 doe, 2 bucks - a 5 and a 10 both in velvet.

Obviously the population is lower since its now a managed area vs IH. I'm looking forward to this years hunt though. In the past we could hardly move around the properties because we were always bumping deer. You'd try to get to your stand and kick around a half dozen deer and everything in the valley knew where you were. Now with the population structure, I feel like I have better odds at working certain areas. Slip in undetected and wait for 1,2, or 3 to pass by instead of having small herds of does, fawns, and maybe a young buck strolling around every where and busting you with their dozen eyes and dozen ears.

I just have to remember that fact and trust my decisions and stay patient; I should get opportunities.

I guess this speaks to the different attitudes of hunters. Some want a calculated hunt that can have specific rewards for their efforts and others prefer a target rich environment - which is fun if you're not concerned about a specific target.

Either way isn't for everybody, but I do enjoy the more frequent sightings of mature bucks vs just seeing 20+ deer per day and not many being mature.

[Scott K]

What if you are in an area where you only see 2 deer in a 9 day season hunt, 1 is a small doe, the other a decent 6 pointer. I guess you go hme with tag soup again. Not everyone has the land, or places to see 20 deer a day, or have the chance to choose between the 20 shooter 10 pointers you seen this weekend.

[Jameson]

...I guess this speaks to the different attitudes of hunters. Some want a calculated hunt that can have specific rewards for their efforts and others prefer a target rich environment - which is fun if you're not concerned about a specific target....

and some just want some targets.

[muskiemanAD]

I hunt 80% public land in SE Mn. There are plenty of places to fill a tag. Half the people that I see complaining down there, expect to show up Saturday morning, hang a stand and shoot a deer. Then when they leave Sunday at noon the are cursing the DNR for not having enough deer to make their hunt easy. Do some scouting, find new sign. The stand that you saw 9 deer with a nice buck on opener 9 years ago may still not be good. This is not intended for anyone on this board as I don't know your situation, just what I see from hunters while out hunting...

[Wanderer]

What if you are in an area where you only see 2 deer in a 9 day season hunt, 1 is a small doe, the other a decent 6 pointer. I guess you go hme with tag soup again. Not everyone has the land, or places to see 20 deer a day, or have the chance to choose between the 20 shooter 10 pointers you seen this weekend.

Scott,

With all due respect, you mis-read my post. I saw 1 legal buck over the weekend and he happened to be a 10 pointer. But of the 4 deer we did see, 75% were legal targets.

We USED to regularly see 20 deer in a day but I'd rarely see a nice 8 or better. Consequently I'd typically fill a tag with a doe when hunting area 348 because I voluntarily let the young bucks walk hoping to fill my buck tag with something older. It's just the way I hunted.

In the last few years I've seen quite a bit fewer deer but regularly see that nice 8 or better buck. The two reasons I figure this is happening is because 1) more bucks are getting the chance to mature, and 2) there are less deer overall so I can get closer to them without sounding the alarms of spooking herds of deer just by getting to my stand.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying my preference is or should be preferred by everyone and I'm not saying that liking a target rich environment is somehow a less respectable viewpoint as a deer hunter; I'm just saying they're two different viewpoints.

I grew up hunting Zone 2 around the Pine River area and often only saw 1 to 3 deer per season but was usually lucky enough to tag out, usually on a young buck. You're dang right I was happy to get those bucks back in the day. I've only run across a couple true dandy's up there and they made the hair on my neck stand up. I hunted them when I could and had a lot of fun, made great memories and learned a lot from them keeping me from getting a shot at them. Since then I've hunted many other varying habitats and have learned more and more about deer behavior and my hunting weaknesses. I hunt a lot differently than I did back then - much more purposeful now. I DO enjoy seeing deer while on stand just like everyone else but don't get mad if I don't. I'm not relying on volume of deer for opportunities.

I still hunt near Pine River with my daughters but in Zone 1. It's a better "Deer Camp" for them. I'm not the trigger guy there though, I just help them and we have a good time with our friends. The veteran hunters there voluntarily let sub-8 pointers walk even though we still see only a few deer per person, per season. That's a mix of public and private land hunting. Yes, there are always empty tags at the end of the season, just like when I've hunted the Benson area and now SE MN.

Nobody owes me a deer. It's my choice about how I use my particular opportunities given the resources available. I'm just calling out the changes I'm personally seeing in 348. I can't say I've seen any change in 172. Can it be changed? Does it need to be? It's definitely an uphill battle if it can be.

[mntatonka]

I should take a picture of my neighbor's corn field. The fact that it's in a managed area and outside the early antlerless season area shows that the DNR has no idea what they're doing when it comes to deer numbers. He's lost 50-75% of his corn to deer damage this year. We should still be at 5 deer per year, with an early antlerless season. There's a lot of people near us that have been shooting deer most of the summer, that's a pretty obvious indicator of overpopulation.