Bear Lottery 2013

[lichen fox]

I think we talked about this last year on some thread. And the way I understand it...you get the "point" when you apply, otherwise how would "first year" hunters even have one point?...so, you'll have four...but considering the big drop in available permits and that the average number of applicants stays pretty consistant year to year...and that in past years all applicants with 3 points and up have been drawn...you should have a really good chance with 4 even with the drop in tags...the only variable we don't know is how many of those applicants will re-apply for the same zone? And, if there are alot of zone jumpers from year to year...how many will have the same preference as you? If there are around 2600 apps again this year for Z 44...only 17% will be drawn...where does that leave you? It's very possible that there "could be" over 450 applicants with the same or better preference as you especially considering the guys that have been planning a future hunt by applying for Z 99 for the past few years...Did you check out the 2012 harvest report/status of black bears in mn on the Dnr HSOforum...the numbers are all there if you have the time to "estimate" your odds...If the quota's remain as low as they've gone in Zone 12 where I hunt, and the number of applicants stays about the same year to year...I would only expect to be drawn, at best, once in every 3 years if I'm lucky! Big change for me considering I did have a strecth a few years back where I was drawn for 9 consecutive years!

[Scoot]

Wow- that is a significant change. Seems like a cut that's pretty tough to justify, given the number of critters being reported...

Thanks for the reminder on the points lichen. I apply for a number of points in a number of states and frankly can't keep all of the goofy systems straight. Each state has its little nuances and it's hard to be aware of, let alone remember, all of them.

I need to wait for the NM elk draw to get done so I know whether or not my brother will be joining me. Once I know about him, I'll put in and hope. When are the results usually posted?

[superbee]

That is a major drop in tags, I would be concerned about all the extra pressure that will be added to the no quota zones and what will happen to the population there. The pressure will definately be redistributed by the reduction. Wisconsin is over run with bears and tags take up to 7-8 years to draw. Seems some states are either over restrictive and some not restrictive enough in some respects. We are at all time high for our bear population in Ontario with little to no restrictions on bear harvest by zones or area.

[Living_The_Dream]

I don't believe that you get the points assigned to you until after you are unsuccessful for that year.

[lichen fox]

That may be correct...but it doesn't really matter as all applicants would be awarded the point when they were eligible...here is the actual wording of the first part of the rule that pertains to the drawing...

6232.2900 BEAR PERMIT PROCEDURES.

Subpart 1.Limit on number of applications. A person may not apply more than once per season, whether as an individual or as a member of a group.

Subp. 2.Drawings. Drawings will be conducted by the department to determine those eligible to purchase a bear license within the bear quota areas.

A.An applicant must select a first choice of bear quota area and may select a second choice of bear quota area. Preference in the drawings will be given to applicants based upon:

(1)the number of times they have correctly applied for a license in a quota area in previous years but have not been selected; or

(2)the number of times they have correctly applied in the preference only area in previous years but have not been selected.

B.Upon issuance of a quota area license, all accumulated preference is lost. Obtaining a no-quota bear license has no effect upon eligibility or preference in the drawings.

Scoot...they usually have the link up to check if you were drawn within the first couple weeks of May....

[lichen fox]

SuperBee...you are correct...here is another snibit from this years "status of the black bear in Minessota" report from our chief bear biologist...

Permit applications for bear licenses seem to have stabilized at a higher level during 2010-2012 than before that, when permit availability was higher. The reduced permit availability seems to have driven up sales of no-quota licenses, which were the highest on record in 2012.The estimated number of hunters in the field (8,600) was the lowest since 1993. However, the total harvest (2,604) was substantially higher than last year because success rate (30%) was up. Success rate may have increased in part due to reduced numbers of hunters (i.e., competition), and in part due to poorer fall foods.

As permit allocations were significantly reduced in all BMUs over the past 5 years, the percentage of 1st-year applicants drawn in the lottery diminished. In 2008 and 2009, some 1st-year applicants (preference level 1) were drawn in all BMUs. By 2012, 1st –year applicants were not drawn in most BMUs. Less than 50% of 2nd-year applicants were drawn in 3 BMUs (26, 44, 45).

Also the last two pages of this report show the population trends based on the DNR's tetracycaline samples and bear harvest statistics...It shows that in the mid to late 90's Minnesota's bear population was estimated to be 25,000 to 30,000...Since 2000 there has been a steady downward trend with the last estimate in 2010 at 15,000 to 20,000 bears!

[jerkbait]

So, are we able to apply online like in the past or do we need to go to an ELS to apply?

[lichen fox]

You can apply online...just have to have your credit/bank card ready to pay the $4 application fee..

[jerkbait]

I will have to look then. A friend said that he could not find it online, needed to go to an ELS. Figured I would ask the experts.

[lichen fox]

After answering that you could...I looked at the sheet they have on the DNR HSOforum...I didn't see anything about "online on there...I may have been mistaken! The only way you can find out is by trying to do it online...just click on the License link on the DNR home page...but, in thier disclaimer it looks like there are two other fees...one is like a 3% addition for using your CCard...the other is like a dollar and some cents fee...If we can indeed apply online, and these additional fees apply to the $4 application fee, it will come to over $5 for doing it online...If we can't...does that mean someone from California has to drive to a MN ELS agent to apply?

But it does say in the news release that you can apply online...

Application for a bear license can be made at any DNR license agent, the DNR License Center in St. Paul, online at www.mndnr.gov/buyalicense or by phone at 888-665-4236. Bear licenses cost $45 for residents and $231 for nonresidents. There is a $4 application fee.

[HNTNBUX]

Maybe with the reduced tag numbers it is time for residents only, limited to overall percentage, or something similar. I know other states have similar rules for limited draw tags.

[certified jumbo]

valid point, hutnbux. it maybe time for residents only....

[Black Bear]

FINALLY somebody other than me brings up the subject of Residents Only (I would settle for 85% reserved for residents only) Just watch the Bear Guides go BALLASTIC on that idea. Seriously, we need to write our representitives about this. At least David Dill, Denny McNamara and Tony Cornish.....they get it.

[lichen fox]

I really don't have an issue with non-residents, as we have to consider that many of those may be home grown Minnesotans, who for work reasons ended up living somewhere else...What I do have an issue with is the DNR NOT having the information about the "percentage" of Non-Residents that draw bear tags in the reports....they have it for Deer, Small Game, etc....Before I would say anything for or against it, I would like to see the %%%'s...but in any case, I would "guess" it is "probably" less than 10%....Anyone seen any actual numbers on this?

[Scoot]

FINALLY somebody other than me brings up the subject of Residents Only (I would settle for 85% reserved for residents only) Just watch the Bear Guides go BALLASTIC on that idea.

I'm a NR of MN and I personally don't see any problem with limiting the number of NRs who get bear tags. It surprises me that NRs and Rs aren't treated differently in the draw. Even if it's small, I'd still like to see a % of the tags go to NRs, but I'm obviously biased being a NR now (born and raised MN, but live in West Fargo now).

One question: I'm waiting to see if my brother and a buddy drew NM elk tags. If they didn't, they'll apply for bear with me. They find out about NM on April 24th (give or take). My understanding is that we don't need to have our MN bear apps in until May 3rd, so I can apply right after I get word on their NM apps, correct?

[lichen fox]

Scoot, you can apply now...and if you want all or none of you to be drawn...just request to "form a new group" when you apply...then if your hunting partners decide to also apply for bear, give them the group number and when they apply they ask to "join an existing group"...if you get drawn, all of you will get drawn. not just one of three or two of three...But, keep in mind, when applying as a "group" the group gets the lowest preference of all group members...so, if you've got points...they will do you no good if someone in your group has none....

[LindellProStaf]

Correct Scoot. I did apply online for my bear app. Had to go to Purchase License and then the list appears for all hunting and fishing licenses available. I got them all at once so I don't forget.

[Scoot]

Scoot, you can apply now...and if you want all or none of you to be drawn...just request to "form a new group" when you apply...then if your hunting partners decide to also apply for bear, give them the group number and when they apply they ask to "join an existing group"...if you get drawn, all of you will get drawn. not just one of three or two of three...But, keep in mind, when applying as a "group" the group gets the lowest preference of all group members...so, if you've got points...they will do you no good if someone in your group has none....

Thanks guys. Lichen, what if I apply as a group and I'm the group leader/organizer and then the other guys draw their NM tag and don't apply with me. Then I'd be a "group of 1"... is that ok?

We all have the same number of PPs, so we're good there, but that's for the heads up.

[lichen fox]

Scoot...yes, you'd then be a group of one...but if you all have the same preference and it's fairly high...it may not make a difference, you all "should" get drawn with a higher preverence...maybe...but only for sure if the drawing takes place on a thursday...after 5 on the first of the next month!

[Scoot]

Lol thanks lichen. Your response is only true for the first time they do the drawing and not when they redraw after botching it, right? Lol

Thanks again- I appreciate it!

[protrapper]

FINALLY somebody other than me brings up the subject of Residents Only (I would settle for 85% reserved for residents only) Just watch the Bear Guides go BALLASTIC on that idea. Seriously, we need to write our representitives about this. At least David Dill, Denny McNamara and Tony Cornish.....they get it.

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I'm a bear guide and I know I'll take some flack for this. I'd like to see all non-residents have to hire a guide. Especially since they dropped the tags so low. My area 31 is down to 550 tags. Pretty hard to bring in new clients much less have my repeats get drawn.

I'll state this I am seeing more and bigger bears the last 4 years. Lots of sows with two cubs, and 2 sows last year with triplets. And we're having more an more damage complaints.

Non resident tags jumped to $250 this year also. Little high if ya ask me.

[Scoot]

Can someone provide the link for where I can check preference points for bear? I can't find it...

[lichen fox]

If you apply online, I think they give you that information on your confirmation page when you are finished...If not, then I know they give it to you when you check online to see if you were drawn or not...If you apply at an ELS agent, it doesn't say anything about preference on the slip they give you...I'm not aware of any other way to check preference points before applying.

[Scoot]

I'm a bear guide and I know I'll take some flack for this. I'd like to see all non-residents have to hire a guide.

You're right- you will take flack for that. Do you honestly think that'd be good for hunters and for hunting or do you simply think that'd benefit you as a bear hunting guide? Not only would that further our sport in the direction of making hunting an elite, niche' endeavor that only the rich can afford, it's simply a terrible idea. Why on earth would you want to disallow non-residents the right to go on a hunting trip on their own? Personally, I'd rather non-residents not be allowed to hunt bears in MN than only let them hunt by going through a guide.

...and, just for the record, I have absolutely nothing against guides or guiding. I'm totally for them and it! I'm friends with a lot of guides and I like them and what they do. Laws that require people to use them to enjoy hunting and fishing opportunities, however, I am completely against.

[Scoot]

If you apply online, I think they give you that information on your confirmation page when you are finished...If not, then I know they give it to you when you check online to see if you were drawn or not...If you apply at an ELS agent, it doesn't say anything about preference on the slip they give you...I'm not aware of any other way to check preference points before applying.

Thanks for the reply, lichen. Here's my situation- my brother didn't draw his NM elk tag, so now he'd like to apply with me for MN bear. However, he's not sure if he and his boys have the same number of pref points as me. I'm pretty sure my brother has the same points as me, but nobody knows about whether his boys have the points. I guess I'll have to call in and ask about it...