Need Carpet Stretched in SW metro

[Walleye Guy]

I need to have the carpet in my basement stretched and trimmed. I had a few guys/companies come out and quote it but they either were not real interested or I didn't get a good vibe from them. Looking for a FM member who is in this business that is looking for a side job. Cash job too.

[CigarGuy]

Don't do re-stretching, but here's the guide lines by the Carpet and Rug Institute. If they don't follow, good chance the same problem will show back up during seasonal temp/humidity changes.

Guidance for Restretching to Remove

Buckles, Wrinkles, and Bubbles

Technical Bulletin

Buckles, wrinkles, and bubbles normally do not occur with properly stretched-in carpet.

If they do, power stretching and following these recommendations should correct the

situation.

• ALL FURNITURE has to be removed from each room.

• The carpet has to be taken loose from all tackstrip.

• Check that all tackstrip is firmly anchored to floor. The proper gully for the

tackstrip is slightly less than the thickness of the carpet, but not to exceed 3/8

inch. Check for cushion (padding) that may have bunched up under the carpet

due to inadequate fastening of the cushion. Check for delamination of the

secondary backing.

• The seams are to be cut open at all doorways and the seams are to be sealed or

buttered before re-seaming.

• Using a power stretcher, not a knee-kicker, the carpet is to be stretched 1% to

1½% in each direction in each room. The four way stretch method is to be used.

• Stretchers with a spike on the end are not to be used.

• Restretching one room and leaving an adjoining room or hallway not restretched

will likely cause wrinkles to reappear.

• Most floor vents and doorways will require pieces to be seamed into the carpet

as the carpet is repositioned with power stretching.

• Edges of carpet that will be placed under a metal strip should be sealed with

seam sealer adhesive to resist raveling. Exposed edges fitted to a hard surface

flooring should also be sealed.

• Follow all installation guidelines as listed in the Carpet and Rug Institute

Residential Carpet Installation Standard-CRI 105.

NOTE: CRI 105 is available for a nominal charge from The Publications Department of The Carpet and Rug Institute.

[traveler]

Walleyeguy; I've been an installer for 35 years, but i don't think you want to pay me to come down from Duluth. Couple things...

Most guys aren't too interested in messing with restretches, but I don't know that I've heard of anyone having multiple quotes on a restretch, usually just a matter of getting a reputable guy over and having it done. Is your job especially big or complicated? Just curious what kind of bad vibe you could be getting from a # of guys??

Just an FYI....the tech bulliten Cigarguy posted is a joke:) much of it is unnecessary and some of it would actually result in your job looking worse in the "after" pic than in the before.

Believe me, I've spent my whole life doing picky residential work and virtually never have restretches as I power stretch everything, and thats one point that the tech bulliten is totally right about. Anyone trying to install carpet without one needs to go home:)

[Walleye Guy]

Its roughly 600 sqaure feet of carpet that is in my rec room and office. There are a couple complicating factors. One is the set of french doors going into the office that the carpet runs under. I have been told the door causes issues regarding the direction you pull the carpet. Second there is a a tiled area in front of a sliding glass door that the carpet goes around. I also make it complicated by having a large heavy desk and a gun safe in the office. Neither which I am real interested in taking out of the room unlees I absolutely have to. The gun safe is actually easier to move than the desk as the desk is a beast.

The bad vibe from one installer was his refusal to quote a fixed price. He wanted to do the job and base the cost on how long it took him. I'm not interested in that scenario. I cannot imagine the job will take more than a couple hours.

[traveler]

Walleyeguy; your last line illustrates precisly why the "guidelines" from the carpet institute don't fly...apart from being way over the top in terms of need, they just aren't realistic. Most folks look at a few bubbles and expect a couple hours will do it, and aren't expecting to pay for what can be a lengthy and complicated job.

In reality, your job might be only a couple hours work, but it very well might not. Restretching is one instance where it's often harder than it looks. I'd say, of the number of calls I get to do restretches, I end up doing about 1/2 of them. The others would simply be too laborous, or just not possible to do in a timely/cost effective manner. No way to tell which your job of course, without seeing it, but from what you describe I can see where an installer won't give you a set price, I wouldn't either, although I could tell you what I think it would cost and most likely I'd be close as I've been at it awhile:)

Part of it is this; you're trying to fix something that was done wrong, and just what was done wrong can be complex, and until you get a look under the carpet it can be hard to tell. If it was only that it was understretched that would be one thing, but because the installers did that wrong, it's very possible they didn't do a proper job with the tackstrip, and because it's on concrete it's more likely the strip is poorly done. I'd MUCH sooner start from scratch then try to fix poorly installed strip with the pad and carpet already in place, especially on concrete... it's a messy job. And slow. There could well be a couple of hours work right there if it's very bad. But it HAS to be done if the carpet is to be stretched tightly. No way to tell till the carpet is taken at least partially up.

I could go on, but hopefully you get the picture. Find a guy who sounds honest, or better yet get a recommendation from someone, and they should be able to tell you if they can fix it and about what It will cost.

[CigarGuy]

Traveler, just curious what part of the guide lines do you believe to be a "joke". Sounds like you agree with several of the guide lines, but choose not to agree with others. I knew I would get called out on this, just waited for the first "shot across the bow"! At least, it sounds like you agree it's usually more work to do a re-stretch than the original install. You a CFI installer?

Hey, walleyeguy what month of the year was the carpet installed? Was the carpet properly accumulated prior to installation?

[Scott K]

I have had Berger Floor covering install new carpet in my house recently, and they have done a great job, for a good price. They do work the area in Shakopee as well, and have an office in Shakopee. Give them a call.

[traveler]

Cigarguy...are you a 35 year guy?? Didn't think so. You can have your CFI and there unrealistic set of "guidelines". I live and work in the real world and get the job done. I do everything that needs to be done to do the job right and don't waste time (i.e. my customers money) doing useless or unrealistic nonsense.

As for that "list"...

• ALL FURNITURE has to be removed from each room. Did you read the response from walleyeguy? People have furniture. They DO NOT want to move it, especially the big stuff. Many, many jobs have china cabinets full of glassware, eletronics hooked up, etc...moving ALL furniture is avaoidable with a little common sense, I do it often.•

The carpet has to be taken loose from all tackstrip. Nope, usually only on the stretch walls.• Check that all tackstrip is firmly anchored to floor. The proper gully for the

tackstrip is slightly less than the thickness of the carpet, but not to exceed 3/8

inch. Check for cushion (padding) that may have bunched up under the carpet

due to inadequate fastening of the cushion. Check for delamination of the

secondary backing. All true.

• The seams are to be cut open at all doorways and the seams are to be sealed or

buttered before re-seaming. The most senseless and damaging item in these guidelines. Busting and remaking seams in used carpet is the LAST thing I want to do, and can do, effectivly. Too many reasons to list, but it falls under the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule, and it's the one thing most likely to look WORSE after the job, and also to waste lots of time doing so.•

Using a power stretcher, not a knee-kicker, the carpet is to be stretched 1% to

1½% in each direction in each room. The four way stretch method is to be used. Forget the %'s, different carpets stretch differently, and the amount of wrinkling would throw any %'s out of whack anyway. I can't even imagine someone in the know suggesting this one...riduculous. And "4 way stretch"?? Again, thats just goofy. The idea in a restretch is to figure out the least intrusive way to do the job effectivly, not the most.

• Stretchers with a spike on the end are not to be used.

• Restretching one room and leaving an adjoining room or hallway not restretched

will likely cause wrinkles to reappear. Bullpucky. Most of the restretchs I've ever seen have problems in some areas and not in others. Mostly because...wait for it...they only messed up PART of the job in the first place! So you fix... the part of the job that needs fixing. Seems simple, right??

• Most floor vents and doorways will require pieces to be seamed into the carpet

as the carpet is repositioned with power stretching.

• Edges of carpet that will be placed under a metal strip should be sealed with

seam sealer adhesive to resist raveling. Exposed edges fitted to a hard surface

flooring should also be sealed. CFI has some sort of perverse love affair with seam sealer. Ever try to run liquid seam sealer in the gap between strip and ceramic and then tuck, say, a frieze?? Good luck with that. It's always a fine line between making something stay in place and making it look good, but there are better ways than seam sealer, except of course where it belongs, along the SEAMS.

• Follow all installation guidelines as listed in the Carpet and Rug Institute

Residential Carpet Installation Standard-CRI 105.

NOTE: CRI 105 is available for a nominal charge from The Publications Department of The Carpet and Rug Institute.

I know some of the above might sound a litle smug, but I believe in how I do my job, and i have more satisfied customers out there than most installers will ever have.

Do everything it takes to do the job right, and nothing more that justs costs the customer extra money.

[CigarGuy]

Sounds like you have all the bases covered! Who am I to argue! Guess the Carpet and Rug institute and the CFI don't have a clue! These just happen to be the most knowledgeable bodies in the industry. They probably install and/or test more carpet/installation methods in month than most installers will install in their life.

Guess you don't like seam sealer? Must not have any unraveling issues along seams or at transition areas. They make it for a reason. I was a 23+ year industry guy-been out of it for several years. But a long standing joke when the retailer had an installation issue was " he's my best installer, been installing for 25+ years". Ya, and it finally caught up to him!! These are the guy's who never go to any product knowledge seminars, take any installation classes or join any industry-related groups, etc., because they know it all.

I'm not directing most of that at you-just an industry observation. It sounds like you take pride in your work, do a fine job and have many satisfied customers. Guess we will "agree to disagree" on this topic.

[traveler]

Thanks for the last lines cigarguy, and I agree, years on the job only matter if you really care about what you do.

I do try to keep on on the latest stuff, and continually work on my techniques. And while I do think many of the techniques outlined by the CFI aren't applicable in many real world situations, I recognize that they do indeed, have a clue:)

As for the seam sealer, I did mention I use it on my seams; in fact, the hot glue gun method is the best thing to happen to seam sealing in a long time. But I never use it in transition areas, probably partly beccause I do almost exclusivly residential work, it is truly a mess trying to use it on "yarny" carpets, and I have other ways of keeping the edges where I put 'em. I imagine if I was doing more commercial carpet to thin tile edges I'd be more likely to use sealer there, but the liquid SS is still a messy affair.

I think we can agree to partially agree, and thanks for the civility:)

[cavalierowner]

I agree with CigarGuy, but it isn't just the carpet industry. Every major building material has an institute with guidelines and recommendations. Those guidelines and recommendations are written into every specbook I wrote for every project. I expected the contractors to follow them. And when I was on site either conducting a pre-install meeting or watching an install, I always had the manufacturer's and Institutes guidelines with me.

If there was a failure of a product, I would call the manufacturer's rep. If it was found that the contractor didn't follow the manufacturer or Institute's instructions, the contractor had a rough road ahead of him.

[traveler]

cavalierowner; you're steering the discussion a bit here...theres quite a difference between new installation specs and a set of guidelines put forth to fix a project. There is inherently more control in a new project, and those of us in the industry understand adherence to spec in those situations. Good idea to have a pre-install meeting, and thats the time I would bring up any situations that might require deviation fron spec, and would figure out the best way to proceed before the beginning of the project.

As for the original discussion here, way too many variables exist in a restretch situation, often compunded by mistakes from the original installation, to have anything more than basic guidelines as to how an installer should proceed. thats where common sense and experience on the job becomes paramount.