Blades or pitch?

[hawgchaser]

I have an old Esky with the razor blades that demonstrated the same traits. About 10 years ago, I got frustrated, bought a new set of blades, and put them on right over top of the old blades so I have double blades. I've been using it like this for years now and have had no problems since. Crazy but it works great. I like the razor blades because I can tune them up with the hand sharpener whenever/wherever they get dull.

[FirstIce]

I called SM about that double chipper for my older unit, 6-7 yrs old. They told me not to put them on anything smaller than their largest Solo.?.? As much as I like SM, I think my next auger will be a return to a Jiffy, probably the Stelth. There are just too many things to deal with that never happened with a Jiffy. I never wanted to have 3 different drills for one auger.

I ended up doing that switch 3 years ago. Had a SM Lazer and it quit cutting. I went and bought blades for it and same thing, I got about 10 holes and that's it. Found out after I sent it in the pitch was off. Needless to say I sold it and bought a stealth. Hands down the auger is way more reliable and better all around than my lazer. I would have to say the only plus the lazer had, was it cut faster. I would put my stealth in between a SM Mag and a lazer for speed, with good blades on it. Awesome for reopening holes, drilling where you might have dirtier ice (River or Dakota's). I still have the same set off blades on it, not to mention the blades do carry a 3 yr warranty.

1 Drill for all of my needs

[JSK76]

Hawg, after seeing your post I call SM too because on the phone yesterday I was told with out even asking that I could uses my 10" dual chipper off my Big Volt on my Solo. I don't remember telling her what hp I have so I called back today and was told you can use the dual chipper on any size Solo just not the Tecumseh powered ones. I just wanted to make sure because I only have the 2 hp.

[Hawg]

Why do they say yes to a 2hp Solo and no toa 2hp Tucumseh? That doesn't make sense.

[JSK76]

She said the tucumseh don't have the rpm's. I think It has to do with the solo be 40:1 gear ratio and the tucumseh has 25:1 more of lack torque on the tucumseh then rpm's. The dual step blade must have much more aggressive cut compared to the single chipper for SM to tell you not to use them on a tucumseh power auger!

[Hawg]

That 25/1 ratio used to be a selling point that SM pounded into everybody. They said they didn't throw the snow all over like a Jiffy. Are they really 40/1 on the new ones? Again though, the 25/1 sgoud do the chipper blade better not worse.?.? 25/1 has more torgue. More double talk from salespeople.

[FirstIce]

That 25/1 ratio used to be a selling point that SM pounded into everybody. They said they didn't throw the snow all over like a Jiffy. Are they really 40/1 on the new ones? Again though, the 25/1 sgoud do the chipper blade better not worse.?.? 25/1 has more torgue. More double talk from salespeople.

Yes the solo's are 40:1

[JSK76]

Forty engine rotations to 1 auger rotation is more torque then 25 engine rotations to 1 auger. Less speed but more torque.

[Hawg]

JSK76-That's backwards isn't it? 40/1 is much faster therefore lower torque, isn't it like high gear vs granny gear? So the 25/1 should turn the heaver biting 2 blade drill with less strain on the transmission. 40 /1 is faster than 25/1. Isn't that torque, lower gearing?

[aanderud]

JSK76 is right regarding the speed of the drill bit versus then engine --

Take an engine running at 1000 RPM.

If you have a 40:1 ratio, then you're turning the shaft at 25 RPM. (1000 / 40)

If you have a 25:1 radio, then you're turning the shaft at 40 RPM. (1000 / 25)

[kerryd15]

the other part of the equations is the solo engine is running alot higher RPM than the techumseh.

[Hawg]

I trust you guys but I'm still having trouble understanding it all. If I put my drill on high speed the chuck(drill) is flying around twice as fast as at low speed, but, I can stop it with my hand easier. If I have it on low speed the inside shaft is still spinning at the same rpm's but the chuck(drill) is only going 1/2 the speed and I can't come close to stopping it. What am I missing? The shaft ratio is constant so regardless of rpms the equation stays the same doesn't it. I must be thinking 100% backwards?

[hawgchaser]

Hawg,

The old law of physics is that, given a constant power source, an increase in speed will result in a decrease power/force and vice versa. You cannot gain both speed and power in a closed system. My 4WD tractor has 20hp and can drag a 3/4 ton pickup out of the mud. My lawn mower has 22.5 hp. In low gear/low range the tractor wheels barely spin giving me exceptional power but almost no speed.

[Hawg]

hawgchaser, one more time and I'll drop this. I agree, then doesn't that mean the drill spinning 40 times,with the same shaft speed, has more speed but less power? Therefore turning at 25 times with the same shaft,slower, has more power/torque? And to think I used to build race cars with assorted rear ends for different perposes! Bigger tires meant more speed but a tougher hole shot and more torque to get going, always a balancing act.

[hawgchaser]

That's what I was trying to say if I didn't. At higher speeds it will cut faster but will bog down/lock up faster too. My old esky is slow rpm, but will spin me around when it locks up at the bottom of the hole.

[Hawg]

So why wouldn't SM say my older 25/1 would handle the double chipper BETTER than the 40/1? You would think it would grind thru better than the fast spinner that would bind easily. Enough of this thinking stuff-Let's go drink, it has to happy hour somewhere.

[hawgchaser]

I can only guess that either the clutching or gearing is different in the two models. A rule of thumb for me...if I want to know about features, I'll talk to a representative. If I want to know about the mechanical aspects of something, I'll try to talk to an engineer or service techie. I'll drink to that!!!

[JSK76]

So why wouldn't SM say my older 25/1 would handle the double chipper BETTER than the 40/1? You would think it would grind thru better than the fast spinner that would bind easily. Enough of this thinking stuff-Let's go drink, it has to happy hour somewhere.

That's where your getting it wrong, your 25:1 IS the faster spinning, given the same engine rpm's. The 40:1 is lower geared.

[Hawg]

noooooo, thinking again. How can 25 times be faster than 40 times spinning? Imagine a merry go round-the center is the same(gear) the top goes around 40 times. That has to be going faster than going around 25 times in the same time period.

[B-man715]

noooooo, thinking again. How can 25 times be faster than 40 times spinning? Imagine a merry go round-the center is the same(gear) the top goes around 40 times. That has to be going faster than going around 25 times in the same time period.

Your example is a gear increase, not a reduction.

Like stated earlier, it's all about the RPM's of the motor combined with it's gear reduction that results in your final auger speed.

If you have a motor that runs at 10,000 RPM's, geared at 50:1 and a motor running at 5,000 RPM's geared at 25:1, the auger shaft will spin the same speed (200 RPM).

10,000/50 = 200

5,000/25 = 200

The newer engines run at a higher RPM (like a chainsaw) to create the same power compared to the older engines (like a lawnmower) which have the same power at a lower RPM. Hence the need to change gear ratios. If they kept the same 25:1 reduction box on a higher rpm engine, it would spin as fast as a Jiffy (but lack the torque needed for lazer blades).

Hope this helps. As for the drinking, I've been doing it all afternoon

[fsnrod]

All the tecumseh augers since the early 2000 are 40 to one

[Hawg]

Why did SM tell JSK it was 25/1? I guess the bottom line is SM says don't put the double chipper on a Tecumseh. Probably just as well because as i said earlier I don't want 3 drills for the same auger, let alone 4. Till SM can reopen a hole in my permanant house I'm going back to Jiffy when this dies. Great people at SM, just a very application specific product if you want dependability, and it's not my application. Again, that 3 bladed 9 inch was sooooo close. I was under the impression the rpm's were very similar and thats why I was struggeling to understand it. If the Solo is that much faster on RPM's maybe thats it. They sure don't sound like they are that much different to an ear. You sure would think that drill would be breaing shafts though because the only torque were talking now is in the instant stop when it wont break through. Ratio is still ratio regardless. I give up.

[JSK76]

She didn't tell me it was 25:1 I got that part from a printout L&M Fleet had next to the Solo augers the first year they came out 12/09.

I found an old post of mine from when I got the info. I don't know if Fleet screwed up or if SM did or it's right, none the less this is what it said.

Motor R.P.Ms

2008 Techumseh engine had 4200 rpms under load

with a 25:1 transmission.

Generating 170 rpm @ the drill

2009 Solo engine 137 mag has 8000 rpms under load

with a 40:1 transmission

Generating 200 rpm @ the drill.

2009 Solo 142 Lazer mag has 8800 rpms under load

with a 40:1 transmission

Generating 220 rmp @ the drill.

2009 Solo 154 Lazer Pro has 9500 rpms under load

with a 40:1 transmission

Generating 240 rpm @ the drill

All # are based on using a 8" dill.

[JSK76]

Didn't SM say when the Solo came out it had a new stronger gear case??? This could have something to do with it.

[Hawg]

Wow, they sure don't sound like 9500 RPM,s but I have to believe they probably are. Two times my Tecumseh?