Thoughts On 220's

[jparrucci]

160s are not tiny. I can almost start to squeeze the spring on it, and my dog can get his head in it easily. 110 is something even a small hunting dog would have trouble getting past his nose, and can be freed with no tools.

[RangerJack]

For some reason I wrote 160's but meant 120's. Which are the same as a 110 with more spring power. my mistake. 160's are dangerous for smaller dogs...I don't use land set conibears tho

[Gordie]

I really want to get back into trapping but this is some of the kinda of stuff I hate hearing about BAN all body grip traps. Then what?

Whats next someones dog gets in a leg hold trap and is now lame because of it. Do you outlaw all traps.

It will start with body grip traps then keep going.

What happens if that dog kills the farmers chicken or someones pet cat or another dog? Do they have to exterminate all the dogs? That would be silly just like this proposal for body grip traps.

[Saw557]

Here are my thoughts....Its a matter of simple math grouse season opens mid September and runs through the end of December the daily limit is 5 with 10 in possession. Fisher/Martin & Bobcat season opens the last weekend of November and runs for 9 days Any bird hunter worth their salt should have their limit well before the end of the season and before trapping season opens.So the question is what are they doing in the woods during trapping season. No bird hunter their right mind would be out during rifle season myself included. So if they know they may run into traps why are they out there. Maybe the solution is to close grouse season Nov. 1 This whole issue has been blown out of proportion by the media and a small group of anti's that wont be happy until there isnt a trap left in the woods. As far as two state legislators introducing a trapping bill aren't there way more important things to worry about...oh yeah we have to build the Vikings a new stadium

[9339za]

As a responsible trapper I support the move to get body grips off the ground. Setting them on the ground isn't necessary and trappers need to stop doing it. It's hurting responsible trappers like myself who do NOT set these deadly traps on the ground. I'm already losing access to private land because of the irresponsible trappers who set body grips where dogs can reach them and be killed and I NEVER set them on the ground. It is inexcusable to kill someone's dog. And to do it because you are too stubborn to change or unwilling to listen just makes it worse.

Right here on this site is an ad for dog proof coon traps. http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/raccoon.aspx

I like them because they are fast, lightweight and you can set them where you can't safely set a body grip or even a foothold. That means I have more places to set and more coons at the end of the day because I don't have to drive by those places. And a LOT more to take to the buyer.

Coons climb like crazy if you've got good bait so why not move the body grips off the ground and stop killing people's dogs before you get responsible trappers banned?

[Saw557]

OK then 1 post joined the forum yesterday hmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????

[Ray1]

As a responsible trapper I support the move to get body grips off the ground. Setting them on the ground isn't necessary and trappers need to stop doing it. It's hurting responsible trappers like myself who do NOT set these deadly traps on the ground. I'm already losing access to private land because of the irresponsible trappers who set body grips where dogs can reach them and be killed and I NEVER set them on the ground. It is inexcusable to kill someone's dog. And to do it because you are too stubborn to change or unwilling to listen just makes it worse.

Right here on this site is an ad for dog proof coon traps. http://www.pcsoutdoors.com/raccoon.aspx

I like them because they are fast, lightweight and you can set them where you can't safely set a body grip or even a foothold. That means I have more places to set and more coons at the end of the day because I don't have to drive by those places. And a LOT more to take to the buyer.

Coons climb like crazy if you've got good bait so why not move the body grips off the ground and stop killing people's dogs before you get responsible trappers banned?

No trapper wants more restrictions. You sound like an anti. This is your first post and you go calling everyone that sets 220s on the ground irresponsible in your own words. I am very responsible trapper and i hope to keep 220s on the ground. I will use dog proof traps where ever there could be a dog present during trapping season. But why is it all of a sudden a trappers fault if a dog escapes their owner and happends to go into a trap that is set legally and away from any farms or public land. This is such a crock that you would want to do this to the trappers in general. This is why i call you fake.

[Saw557]

+1 I think there alot of trolls and antis trying to stir the pot or maybe they are just ignorant to the fact one more restriction is another nail in the coffin. Like I said above close small game Nov. 1 (after all any law abiding better than thou hunter will have their limit) and it will avoid many of the problems. As a side note I am so sick and tired of the media replaying the same stories over and over the Duluth News ran the same story today thats been in at least two other papers lately.

[9339za]

So anyone who thinks different from you is an anti? I don't buy it. Accepting change is part of our future. We either accept those changes or we perish as a sport. It's that simple. The woods has changed much since I started and we need to change along with it.

Maybe you can explain how a grouse hunter is supposed to hunt and keep his dog safe from a body grip trap?

Trying to all blame dog deaths on irresponsible dog owners just makes us look stupid.

[Ray1]

I am not blaming dog owners. I am a dog owner myself. I hunt grouse and pheasants. But if my dog ran away from my control why would it be the trappers fault. I understand there is change too but i dont like people taking away anything from us as trappers and hunters. Once one thing goes then they will just want to take more. Why not fight for something that has been around for years? A EDUCATED HUNTER COULD KEEP HIS DOG SAFE BY LEARNING WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND CARRYING A SET OF CONIBEAR SETTERS.

[jparrucci]

Sorry ray, but this isn't about out of control wild dogs. My dog works close and I can see him at all times, doesn't mean he still isn't at risk. Closing all bird seasons on Nov 1 isn't gonna happen either, that would have given us a 13 day pheasant season this year. Dec 1 closing of grouse may be realistic since it opens earlier. FYI, that would give trappers a longer season than more hunters.

[Random guy]

Our fisher martin season is only 9 days long.

Another aspect to keep in mind is the latest I have heard the proposal is to ban the 220 on the water also, unless completely submerged. That opener is October 20'ish every year and is a small window until freeze up.

Men I hate to say it but this is start of the end. First the 220, then snares, then leg holds. After that has all been taken care of it will be use of, shock collars, then dogs all together, semi automatic rifles/shotguns and eventaully the taking of wild game.

They got the ball rolling now. Puttng a nail in the coffin of the trappers, turning the outdoorsmans against each other and growing a larger following all using the common household dog.

[Trashguy]

I wasn't going to post anymore about this, because I'm not going to change the way some of you feel and I'm not going to change the way I feel either. But could you one of you trappers that keeps bringing up "keep your dog under control replies" answer me one last thing? How am I while busting the brush or hunting the edges of swamps, Aspen edges, or just plain heavy cover,etc, supposed to control my dog when she/he is out in front of me 40-50 feet and she smells & finds that baited five gallon bucket in a split second? Not all of us walk down nicely groomed tails, or wide open logging roads with clear vision many yards left and right. Who do you think is going to find that baited trap first the instinct/nose of my dog or my old eyes. Especially if the set is covered with snow, pine bows, etc. Please tell me with an honest answer and not some smart &%*&^ answers, like keep the dog on a leash. I mean be realistic please. We don't all have the fore mentioned highly trained $10,000 dog. And another thing that has been mentioned, is shorting changing the grouse season, I personally don't have a problem with that, but I bet you half the people that own dogs and are worried about these traps don't even hunt and use the woods/fields with their dogs with them for a variety of other things, year round.

[swampman]

Few questions for ya 9339za

How exactly has the woods changed since you started? when did you start? hunter and trapper numbers are both lower than they were 30 yrs ago

How many bobcats you think you are going to catch in a elavated body grip?

If you set your dogproofs in a place you are even afraid to set a foothold what about somebodys cat? dp's are'nt cat proof what is a responsible trapper supposed to do about that?

Just curious to your answers

[Random guy]

Quote:

and not some smart &%*&^ answers, like keep the dog on a leash. I mean be realistic please.

As much as you don't want to hear it the leash comment is about the best way the trapper has been able to explain to the dog hunter what taking away the 220 will do. It is as a ridiculous idea that cripples the sport just as putting gun dogs on a 4' leash would destroy most bird hunting.

Just take a breath and think what would it be like if the State of Minnesota passed a leash law on all dogs on all state lands? Just think how that would affect your success. Now taking away the 220 on both land and now water is as crippling to the trapper as keeping a birddog on a four foot leash would be.

[swampman]

Jonny p your pm box is full

[Trashguy]

Jonny P, I hear you loud and clear, really I do, (-: but that doesn't answer the question I asked. You gave a comparison, not an realistic answer to my question, about how I am suppose to keep my dog under control, as I wrote above. If the leash idea is ridiculous, what do you suggest? I guess then the answer from the people that trap (notice I didn't say "your side") has to be stay out of the woods during trapping season. I know if some changes are made to the way you have to trap, it may lead to fewer $$ for you, but you will still be able to do what you love, be it differently. If I loose months out of the year not being able to enjoy those woods with my dog, how do you put a $$ amount on that?

[walleye365]

Im lookin at this from the outside lookin in. I hunt (no dog) im not a trapper its pretty clear to me that Mr. Ward is worryed more about votes then anything ok theres more doghunters/doglovers then trappers i would think and i see only one side being asked to change or possiably made to change something wrong here IMO. Iv never come across one of these traps and i put on hundreds of miles each year on foot.Not a fan of the government changeing game and fish laws either once they start one never knows what else they might want to tinker with. GoodLuck

[9339za]

Few questions for ya 9339za

How exactly has the woods changed since you started? when did you start? hunter and trapper numbers are both lower than they were 30 yrs ago

How many bobcats you think you are going to catch in a elavated body grip?

If you set your dogproofs in a place you are even afraid to set a foothold what about somebodys cat? dp's are'nt cat proof what is a responsible trapper supposed to do about that?

Just curious to your answers

When I started in MN in the 60's I could set next to the trail and never worry about a hunter with a dog. Now I don't know a single trail that doesn't get covered by someone with a dog. It's not just hunters either.

No one is saying trap bobcats off the ground. We have footholds that work better than body grips.

You are not going to catch cats with sweet bait in dog proof coon traps.

[9339za]

How many more dogs do you think we can kill before we kill the wrong one and really get slammed in the legislature?

Change is coming in how we use body grips. Either we accept change and stop killing dogs or we lose them completely. Half steps will only postpone the inevitable and make it worse. Is that what you want? What about our kids? WIll they trap or do you even care?

[FCspringer]

I think this bill is a joke. In 20 some years trapping I cought 1 dog. He was tresspassing 2 miles from where he had permission. The 220 was wraped on the Labs head. Did not hurt the dog. The dog went to the owner and he could not figure it out so he took the dog to the vet, who easily took the trap off. The man called me and asked me to pay the bill. I laughed and then replied that if he wanted to pay for a trespassing ticket and trap tampering ticket, and a new trap, he could keep it. He gave me my trap back and have had no trouble ever again. If dog owners avoid high risk areas there is no need for legislation. That would ruin the use of the most humane method of trapping coon. A upland predator and nest raider. Most farmers or land owners will tell you if there is a trapper on the land for crying out loud. Avoid areas in road ditch culvert areas, creek edges near a road, abandon farm sites, small game trail areas leading from a woods to a corn field and you will most likely never in your life run into one, Ever. Trappers wish to avoid you, you are a problem for him. To call them names like thieves, thugs and so on is rubbish. I am a pheasant hunter, breeder trainer, lover of dogs and a trapper. How can I trap my land and not have dogs get caught? Perhaps the dogs caught were in places they had no permission, or failed to ask if there was a trapper, or a stray off lead free running all over? Yes Or a very rare accident. Millions more dogs are killed by cars, perhaps the bleeders want to stop driving?

[Saw557]

Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats

[swamptiger]

Quote:

Everyone is talking compromise so how's this. No 220's on the ground until Dec1 close grouse season on Dec 1 and keep the current conibear water set rules ( half submerged) bird hunter will still have a month and half to two month season and trappers won't have something unreasonable stuffed down their throats

This to me is an entirely reasonable and workable solution for both sides.

This particular season was worse than normal for dog/conibear conflicts because of the warm weather - in the north zone anyway. I ran into a couple of grouse hunters with dogs in December after deer rifle season this year. Don't ever recall that happening before.

[jparrucci]

Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me

[Ray1]

Compromise would be EDUCATION on both sides.