Deer Sticks...again

[OnAFly]

I kn ow this has been brought up a few times on here, but I've got a few additional questions.

Do I need to add water to my mixture before stuffing into the casings? Some say yes, some don't. I would think this is a universal rule if I should.

Do I need to add "Accent" aka MSG? It seems like most recipes call for it.

Has anyone on here used their own seasoning recipe as opposed to the premixed kits? If so, care to share?

[reinhard1]

i have never added accent or msg to any of my sausage mix. as far as water, i always add water to the mix. i put the cure in the water to disolve it. i would think 1/4 cup per pound would be pretty close. i have experimented with different measurements to get the right consistancy and i add 6 cups of water or beer for 25 pounds of smoked sausage recipe [i add dried milk powder to the mix as well].

one thing about stuffing sticks is that you should stuff them the day you mix your batch and then let them set in the fridge overnight to let the flavors and cure set before smoking. the reason for this is because you are using smaller tubes and smaller casings. the mix is more moist and easier to stuff the day of grinding and mixing. for other sausages such as brats or polish for example it is not neccessary to do this. for that i stuff the next day. i put up a recipe on the other stick thread. maby more will chime in with more recipe's. good luck.

[OnAFly]

Thanks RH1, I was wondering about the cure time as well so thanks for clearing that up. Sausage making is pretty new to me, so I don't really know what I'm doing.

[reinhard1]

no problem, i still learn new stuff all the time. great people here on these cooking threads to learn from. good luck.

[OnAFly]

One more question. Can I use TenderQuick as my curing agent? If so, how much do I add per pound.

The bag says to add 1Tbsp per pound of ground meat. This seems very salty.

[reinhard1]

tenderquick is a mixture of salt, sugar, and a small amount of nitrates [curing agents]. i would go with what is recommended. if you notice when you buy HIgh Mountain or Nesco jerky mixes they have their "cure" and it is tenderquick. if you look at the measurment of the Nesco cure packet it is one level tablespoon of the cure per pound of meat. remember if the recipe calls for salt, do not add the salt just the cure. if using the tenderquick dont use the salt if it calls for it. good luck.

[hockeybc69]

Back to the question about whether to use water or not.

ABSOLUTELY!

Number one, the water helps lubricate so you can stuff easier. Those small tubes on stuffers can become quite a workout if your mix is sticky.

I add water to all sausage that I make. Sometimes a mix of water and beer.

As far as homemade recipes vs seasoning kits.... I have done the homemade stuff and to be honest, I have just gone with pre packaged mixes for the last few years. I have just had better luck with pre packed seasoning mixes.

[reinhard1]

as i stated in my previous posts i always add water as well. i have 3 pounds of jerky sticks in the dehydrator right now. i added 3/4 cups of cold water to the mix which i dissolved the cure in also.

there are still items i use old recipes from such as swedish sausage for example. even with those i have altered them in some measure over the years. i also use pre mix for my smoked stuff such as summer,thuringer,salami, and kielbasa for example. the place i get mine from is by far the best i have ever used. having said that i still add extra garlic, pepper, red pepper, jalapenos, wild rice and dried powdered milk for example.

as you said, water or beer plays an important role in sausage making and has been for as long as sausage was being made. the key is finding the right amount. i use beer in smoked items such as kielbasa. i have been using dried jalapeno flakes in some batches of stick jerky and they are becoming a hit around here. good luck.

[OnAFly]

Beer it is! Thanks for the input. Now I just have to pick up some fatty pork. I don't think I added enough at first.

[hockeybc69]

I use 70/30 hamburger for my all my sausage making now.

Give that a try.

[rocstar]

Hey R1--- I noticed you have mentioned adding powered milk to your sausage and stick recipes. What does the milk do for you? Flavor, consistency?

[reinhard1]

powdered milk acts as a binder. it helps absorb some of the moisture and give sausage a better texture in my opinion. this has been done for years. also adds some nutritional value. i do add a little more water or beer in my smoked sausage when i use this. as a stated before [by experimenting] 6 cups of water or beer to a 25 pound mix gave me the right sticky texture i wanted. i haven't used it for fresh sausage yet but i will try it on my next batch. the right amount to use is 1 cup per 5 pounds of meat mix. use the same amount of seasoning, that does not have to be altered. good luck.

[Surface Tension]

I just made 16 lbs of Sweet & Spicy and Pepperoni sticks.

Why 16 lbs. Pork butts average 9lbs with bone, after trimmed and boned you'll end up with around 8 lbs. When I put up the ground meat for sausage of sticks I'll make them 8 lb bags.

Anyway if you like a 50/50 ratio then it works out without having miss match right or close enough.

In this case 50/50 ground moose and ground pork butt.

1/4 cup cold water per 1 pound meat is about right.

Keep the batches small and stuff immediately after mixed because the cure will make the meat firm up.

I use a stuffer and can shoot 3' of sticks in one shot. This particular stuffer is a cheap Northern Tool version.

If you have one it won't work well as is because the meat will blow by the plunger.

I'll be making a rubber gasket for it, one that will relieve the suction. In the mean time about 5 wraps of duct tape around the plunger then folded over will work fine.

On the bigger batches I'll go and borrow Pops vertical stuffer.

If you don't have a stuffer you can do it with a grinder but its going to take longer and you run the chance of smearing the meat. Stuff using your large dia grinding plate as this will offer less resistance over the small dia plate. You will have to use the knife as this hold everything together.

Sort of backing up a step here but when you grind start with a sharp knife. That will make the grind much faster, less chance of smearing the meat, and moist important less clogs especially when you grind with a small dia plate. Use a file and be careful to keep the angle and not roll the edge.

When done flatten the bottom and deburr the knife. Lay 220 grit sandpaper on a flat surface, lay the knife on the paper and use circular motion.

If your using the oven use the top rack and preheat it to 300 degrees and let it hold there for a half hour. Turn the selector to bake and the temp down to 200 degrees and let it settle in for half an hour.

Now the whole oven is up to temp, get your sticks in there fast and shut the door.

They'll be done when the internal temps hits 160. Get them into a cold water shower hour. .

Pat dry and let them sit at room temp till for half.

Actually if you buy a kit a lot of this info is in the directions.

[mymightyhunters]

Ok, I want to apologize up front! In my search for a deer stick recipe the other night I came across this forum and love the fact that it seems almost like a face-to-face conversation! My husband and boys are the hunters - I am just the deer stick maker! I apologize because I am not trying to be repetetive, but want some more specifics.

I have been reading some of your posts and am hoping some of you can give me some really good pointers. We made our own sticks last year and actually used a well-known and well-recommended recipe. Boy, were they salty! Then we tried a maple recipe, but way to sweet! both times we followed the recipe and even weighed out the meat. I am pretty determined to figure this out as our kids have years of hunting ahead of them and because I am not real fond of the idea of taking my meat to a locker where I will probably get someone elses meat back - kinda gross to me!

So, here is my list of questions -

- Does anyone have a great recipe they would be willing to share that is not too hot & spicy and not too sweet, but somewhere in the middle? The recipe we had didn't call for any added meat - we used all deer meat and would like to stick with that if we can.

- Casings - the ones we used worked ok, but I have seen mention elsewhere of soaking them in water or adding beer or water to the meat for moisture, which does make sense. I cook all of my meat (roast, deer roast, whole chicken) in beer and the flavor is amazing, but I don't want deer sticks that have a strong beer flavor. So, do I not soak the casings, but just add the beer to the deer meat, and if so what ratio? Or was the beer more for sausage than sticks?

- I purchased and used a Jerky Gun for our sticks and for a some jerkey as well. Worked pretty well except for the fact that the casings would split kind of easily. Would this be where soaking them is beneficial? Honestly, the casings had no pointers, tips, or instructions included.

- We also let the meat cure for 3 days before actually doing the sticks. From what was mentioned above, we should go ahead and do the sticks and then let it cure, correct?

Again, sorry for all the questions! But any help that any of you can offer would be VERY, VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

If it makes any difference, we are doing our sticks in the oven, not a smoker.

[reinhard1]

as far as the casings, i would recommend natural sheep casings for sticks. you should always soak your casings in water until they are soft and plyable. also you should rinse the inside of the casings by using the faucet in your sink. just open the end of one of the casings and put it up to the faucet and let some water run in the casing and then squeeze it out and put the casing back in clean water.

dont worry about beer taste when using beer in the mix. use 1/4 cup of water or beer per pound of meat. when you have the amount of liquid fiqured out put the proper amount of cure in that liquid and disolve it in there before putting it in the mix. if a recipe calls for Morton tender quick [cure] do not add any additional salt to the mix even if it calls for it.

the day you make the mix for the jerky is the day you should stuff it. then put the links in the fridge for 24 hours, no need for 3 days. then smoke or bake the links. getting back to water, it is important that liquid is added. it helps with the moisture and helps mix your seasonings and cure well.

just kind of re-reading as i go here with your questions. i think the reason your casings split is because they were not soaked long enough, too much pressure in the casings during stuffing [trying to fill the casings too tight], not lubricating the tube used for stuffing, or too small of a casing for the tube maby.

just throwing that out there.

have you concidered not using casings? how do you cook yours[dehydrator,oven, smoker]. if you like you can keep asking questions here on this thread and i or someone will help you. or you can PM me and i will give you my number and we can go through this that way. one way or the other you will get the right advice and hopefully help you get the best results. there are some recipe's on the cooking forum. just scroll down until you see the any thread with the work beef sticks, venny sticks and look through those.

i just checked and there is a recipe on the thread "Snack Sticks" on the first page of the cooking forum. also check out Shacks thread titled " HSO's Smoked, Smoking, @ Smokers Library of Links". ton of information there. dont be afraid to ask any question you have. good luck.

[mymightyhunters]

THANK YOU so much! I am anxious to try these with the beer. So, what ratio of Tender Quick would you use?

The first recipe we used last year called for canning salt,Tender Quick, and Accent Seasoning in addition to the other seasonings. (The Salt was almost a killer!) I am going to go with your recommendation of just using the Tender Quick - no canning salt! Since I am not real good with seasonings, would you still use the Accent Seasoning do you think?

[reinhard1]

tenderquick is 1 level tablespoon per pound of mix. accent is not needed in my opinion. make sure you dissolve the tenderquick in the beer before you put it in the mix. dont use dark beer. let's see your original recipe the way it was. good luck.

[mymightyhunters]

First recipe we used was 5 lb. ground venison, 2 T canning salt, 1 1/2 tsp. Tender Quick, 1 1/2 tsp Accent seasoning, 2 T liquid smoke, 4 T garlic powder, 1 tsp. cayenne pepper.

Second was suppose to be 5 lb. ground venison, 2 T canning salt, 1 1/2 tsp Tender Quick 1 1/2 c maple syrup, 1/4 c brown sugar, 1/2 tsp ground ginger, 1/2 tsp cinnamon. However, we didn't use near all the salt the second time around!

So, now I am thinking of trying a Teriyaki stick with 3 lb. venison with the beer/Tender Quick ratios you suggested, 2 tsp. garlic, 1 tsp ginger root, 1/4 c. light corn syrup, 1/4 c soy sauce, 1 c. teriyaki sauce? And then maybe your Pepperoni Stick recipe, but with only venison? I am also going to skip the casings and maybe try smoking them instead of using the oven? I saw a couple warnings about making sure to lightly smoke them - what do they mean by that?

I am sorry to be such a bother! But we have 3 deer in the freezer and I am determined to find the perfect recipe, so bring on the suggestions!

[KEN W]

I always mix some beef or pork with venison.The fat is needed to help bind the meat and not be crumbly.Since the venison used has no fat....you need to add some.

[reinhard1]

it's always a good idea to make a small batch first to see if you like it and then double the recipe or more if you like it. Ken is correct that you have to add some 70/30 ground beef to the venison otherwise it does get to dry. for 3 pounds i would go 2 pounds venison and one pound beef or pork butt.

using that ratio here is another idea besides the recipe's posted which are good. use High Mountain or Nesco Jerky seasonings in a flavor you would like. the packets come with directions and cure. i just make some beef jerky sticks using just 80/20 ground beef which is ground chuck.

i used the jerky gun with the tube attachment and no casings. i put them in the dehydrator which reaches temps to 155 and they took 6 hours. i used the Nesco garlic pepper mix. very easy to use. they have packets for one pound of meat plus seperate packs of cure for one pound of mix. that cure is tenderquick. all you would need is 3/4 cup of water or beer and disolve your cure in that. mix all well, cover, let sit in the fridge overnight and the next day squeeze some out and put them on a wire rack and put them in your smoker or oven.

your teriyaki recipe starts out fine but with the corn syrup,soy sauce, and teriyake sauce it seems a little heavy for 3 pounds [for added moisture also]. but that's just my opinion, everyone has different taste's. that recipe almost looks as if it were for meat slices for a marinade rather than for ground meat.

usualy the smoking proccess for sticks is usualy half the time smoke and the other half no smoke. that may be what they mean. in other words dont smoke the entire time.

i use the dehydrator because it's simple and i have the timing down and most of all everyone i give the sticks to like them. i am going to get a Masterbuilt verticle smoker. since it is all digital i can control the temp i will then make my sticks in there with no casings. no water pan, but a drip pan to catch drippings.

i welcome questions, so dont feel bad about asking. if i cant answer your question, someone will. some great people on the site. good luck.

[OnAFly]

I screwed up and put too much in the smoker at once. The center sticks steamed while the outer ones smoked. The ones that smoked came out good, but the steamed ones are nearly inedible. I'll have to be more careful next time.

That's the only thing I don't like about my smoker, it has issues with being able to get a lot of moisture out of the air, so things end up too wet.

[rocstar]

I use to have an old guy make me up venison sausage and sticks and they were great! Unfortunately he passed away. After a couple of bad experiences with paying good money and giving away good venison I figured I would never have it again. My cousin just threw away 25 lbs of summer sausage from a well known butcher shop that was totally rancid and I have heard of several people doing the same over the years. Besides I am a cheap dude and not about to pay $5 to $7 for salami or jerkey. No surprise it is such a lucrative segment of the meat industry today.

We are new to the game after making two trial runs. With todays smokers and the seasoning kits you can buy online it is easy and fun. You difinately learn from your own experieces and the advise from the masters like R1. Thanks for all your help.

Anyways, so far I have only purchased sausage kits from Curley's Sausage Kitchen down in Fairbank IA at say $0.70 to $0.90 per lb. I am also familiar with PS Seasoning over in Wisconsin. When you make your own, assuming you use casings, how much can a guy save? So far I think Curley's is great. Are there any others out there that you are particularly happy with?

[reinhard1]

i dont know if the savings are that great vs the satisfaction you get in figuring out your own seasoning. however if you find a pre-mixed seasoning you like i would stay with it. from that point you can add what you like to it. for example, jalapenos, wild rice, bacon [in breakfast sausage], onions and more. i have found a pre-mixed kielbasa [recommended to me by a meat head buddy] that is great.

i liked it the way it was, but i just cant keep my hands from extras. so i added extra garlic and course black pepper. so i made some as is, extra garlic and pepper, and one time with hot pepper flakes added. so with one pre-mix as a base you can have different tastes. also i make one batch with a medium plate and one with running the mix twice through with the course for a different old world texture. some in rings and some in links.

the pre-mix i use come from Hamms Butcher Supply in Ham Lake. however the ones you mentions have had some good comments in the threads here as well. in the end, making your own is always the best way to go. it's not for everybody for one reason or another, but if you have the time and the will, it's the way to go. good luck.

[reinhard1]

i have had that happen to me, and i cut the amount of sausage in half what i put in. in my case i did it in the oven and the end sticks of thuringer [about 3 pounds per tube in fibrous casings] were over done but most turned out great. after i corrected that all the tubes were uniform in doneness at the internal temp of 160 deg. good luck.

[KEN W]

You can also check out Eldon's Sausage out of Idaho and The Sausage Maker oput of New York.