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fall patterns for crappies and sunnies

CALVINIST

By CALVINIST
in Crappies-Sunfish

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Matt Johnson Grand Master

Matt Johnson

Posted
Posted

Fall patterns...ahh yes, the turn-over period smile.gif This is when the thermocline diminishes and the cool and warm water start to mix. The typically deeper water crappies patterns of the hot summer months will turn into shallower water patterns. (Keep in mind that rivers will be different and not every lake will experience the same effects either, every body of water may be different from the next) When the water mixes you will typically find the crappies in some sort of migration stage (in lakes) and they will start to slide to the initial breaks and suspend off shallow water edges instead of constantly roaming the deeper depths. The turn-over period might not last too long (especially with the weather we've experienced this year smile.gif) Once the water turns over and the temps drop more and more, you will begin to find fish staging in their early ice locations. Summer and late-summer crappies will stage, often times, suspended in deeper water at the same level of the top of the initital breakline (flat). So if you have the top of your break at say 10 feet, and you drop into about 25 feet at the basin, you will find crappies suspened 15 feet off the bottom out on the basin. These fish will roam and you will often times mistake them for baitfish or when you try to pinpoint them they just keep moving (thats part of the reason it can be tough to find the big slabs in the hot summer months) These fish will begin staging for the winter once fall approaches and WILL feed on what is in front of them if the opportunity presents iteslf, but intercepting these fish can be tough on lakes with large basins and limited structure. I don't typically heavily follow the crappie movements during the hot summer months since they are so sporadic, but once they begin moving into winter patterns thats when they get my attention (I'm an ice fishing geek grin.gif) Learning the fall (turn-over period and into early ice) patterns has a lot to do with finding the slabs at early ice. Smaller crappies will stack up in obvious shallow(er) spots at early ice, but you will still find some of your larger fish off the "so called" prime hotspots of early ice. Call me crazy, but I'll spend all day trying to catch two 14-15 inch crappies instead of sitting and pounding the 8-11 inchers at early ice. Early ice crappies will relate to the weeds, atleast as long as they provide oxygen (which may last quite a ways into winter or even throughout winter in some cases) I personally don't think that the larger crappies need to relate to those weeds, I'm not saying that you won't catch slabs in the weeds at early ice, but I'm just saying that those weed areas tend to draw in more smaller fish as well as potato chip bluegills and hungry roaming pike. The larger crappies (concentration of fish) that I do typically find in the weeds are located in lakes where the weedline pushes out into deeper water, say 12-15 feet of even more, and I find the slabs right out on the deeper portions at early ice. Ok, enough with early ice, back to fall smile.gif ...

Once the thermocline does a flip-flop (and dissapears) and you complete the turn-over you will notice that the crappies adjusted to a whole new area. During this time you won't find the crappies suspended over the deeper water 24 hours a day, or even at all anymore. They will somehow relate to shallower water, whether its off the break, or along the deep weededge. Once they move up into the weeds they will relate to the shallower weeds until they die off (assuming that they do in a typical lake situation), then they will cling to the oxygen-rich (slightly deeper) weeds until those are gone. Now, this is a general crappie pattern, and not true for every lake and not always true for all the larger fish. This is, how should we call it... "crappie intuition" smile.gif

So, right now I would still look for crappies roaming out in deeper water, but once we see the water temps drop more into the 50s you will want to start pinpointing when the crappies begin their fall migration patterns. Once they move you can find them off shallow breaks or structure, as well as along the deeper weedline. This is where they will hold until the water temps drop to near freezing and the weeds drop rapidly, than you can find them holding on to whatever weed growth is left as the ice forms above them.

Here's how I pattern the crappies throughout all of this (slightly different than normal smile.gif)...

Deep water pattens
Your summer to late-summer pattern. Crappies roaming deeper water. This is when I don't like to fish crappies, carp can be fun grin.gif

Turn-over (thermocline dies)
Crappies move from deeper water and stage off shallower water. Keep an eye on areas where you know the crappies are at early ice and move out from there.

(inbetween these two is where I find my larger crappies at early ice)

Thermocline is dead...full turn-over
Crappies are holding off shallow structure, more tight though. Weeds are dying and fish gradually slide deeper.

Early Ice......for another day...


This is my view of a typical crappie movement from late summer to early ice for you typical lake. I have some lakes where the pattern is very different, and some lakes where you catch your early ice crappies in deeper holes. Keep in my that these crappies that are found the deeper holes at early ice might have already migrated shallow and already moved back out (crappies will move back out as ice thickens and light penetration gets worse.....now we are into ice fishing patterns)

A lot of this is just a general discription of how crappies move in an average lake with moderate weed growth and available deep/shallow water.

I hope some of this helps. Sorry if I repeated some things, if something doesn't make sense feel free to ask. The only reason I really focus heavily on fall patterns is for ice fishing, like I said...ice geek grin.gif

Check out the Fall Migration here...
Fall Migration...Crappies

Good Fishin,
Matt Johnson

------------------
Matt Johnson Outdoors
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Metro Area Ice Fishing and more...

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[This message has been edited by Matt Johnson (edited 08-24-2004).]

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kingkidfisher4431 Collaborator

kingkidfisher4431

Posted
Posted

Hey Matt. Everytime i read your articles i say to myself, self, "this is a guy that knows his stuff". I have now learned the summer crappie patterns, transition period patterns, and winter patterns of crappies in most lakes. I wish we could set something up and go fishing some time... I would love to take you to some of our private lakes and see how you would fish them. Drop me an email sometime at ivanhoe_jake@ yahoo.com, would could talk about an ice trip this winter.

The Kid

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CrappieJohn Veteran

CrappieJohn

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Matt has done an excellent job of defining the fall bite. I am going to toss a couple things here as well.

When the turn-over occurs, look for lots of "suddenly" cloudy water....clear one day, dirtier the next without any rain, free floatingweeds all of a sudden fouling your lines, etc. Often times the turn occurs with little change in the actual water temp. When it does take place, it drags tons of garbage up off the bottom as the water rises and weeds can, and will, come with it. I generally give the fish three or four days to "normalize" after the turn in spring and in the fall.

Another pointer....try going back to the areas you were catching spring "pre-spawn" crappies and sunnies. For me that means concentrating on the deep water side of breaklines with lots of submerged wood, bridge pilings and even trees standing in deeper water. Down-size the baits if fish get tight lipped and fish very tight to the cover.

------------------
Plastics...making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys! CrappieTom

muckbootsonline.com Pro Staff
Culprit Tackle Crappie Pro Staff
Catch-n Tackle Pro Staff
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[This message has been edited by CrappieTom (edited 08-26-2004).]

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Matt Johnson Grand Master

Matt Johnson

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Posted

Baits and presentations...

As Tom will soon mention smile.gif...plastics are always important, but livebait can be a factor during the fall. The migrating crappies will go through periods where they will gorge themselves before preparing for the upcoming winter. In the initial stages when they are actually moving horizontally, you will have a hard time pinpointing and they will take a break in feeding patterns until they resituate. It won't take long though.

I prefer twister-tails and thumber-style plastics in the fall, feather/fur jigs are good choices too. I've also had success on red/pink jigheads and fathead minnow. Upsizing can be key in the fall, so fatheads might be the kicker on some days. Small spinners like Beetlespins and RoadRunners work well too. When those crappies put on the feedbags it wont matter a lot on what you tie on. Some days a plain hook and minnow seals the deal. Let the fish dictate what they want, start with plastics and if they are aggressively hitting than stick with it, if they are aggressively hitting but you can't hook a fish than downsize. If you mark fish but see no action, than change to livebait, start small and upsize if necessary. I like to stick with minnows in the fall, I bypass the worms and such.

One other thing, horizontal baits might make a difference as well, keep that bait horizontal.

I know Corey does real well with the 2-inch Power Minnow, another good choice.

Good Fishin,
Matt Johnson

------------------
Matt Johnson Outdoors
[email protected]
Metro Area Ice Fishing and more...

Iceleaders
Catch-N Tackle and Bio-Bait
MarCum
Stone Legacy
JR's Tackle
Fish Fever

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CrappieJohn Veteran

CrappieJohn

Posted
Posted

Most of you know that I am a strong proponent of plastics and that I rarely fish bait. There are a couple times of the year that are prime for using bait though, and the spring and fall turn-overs are them.

I once wrote that I am not a fool and that if the fish wanted real meat, I'd come off my plastics throne to feed them that which they desire. It is not that I won't fish the live stuff....I simply prefer not doing so. But, yes, I will use it if the fish demand it.

During the spring and fall turns, we are looking at the purest definition of the term "transition period". It is during this period that to be successful consistantly one must got to the water well prepared to fish in almost any fashion , and with about any bait imaginable. While the water temps may not be icy cold, they are not quite hot either. the fish are not in their summer haunts nor are they yet in the winter digs....it's like they are in limbo. This can be a tough time to catch fish unless you are unrelentingly patient.

In the warm summer water, the fish are basically a horizontal fish....they move more in a horizontal direction than they do up and down. In warm water they tend to be spread out in loose groups.... a school of two hundred fish might occupy a piece of water the size of a football field. In colder water, that which has turned in the fall by about two weeks, this same school of fish will take on a more vertical attitude and may only occupy an area the size on a garage. Their movements now will be primarily vertical, but they will move on a horizontal plane to feed or find food or to relocate to the deeper water for wintering.

When the two different attitudes ( horizontal and vertical) come together at the turn-overs, the fish get confused and may be found about anywhere until they water itself becomes more stable. Numbers of fish can be found together, but they will certainly need to have something there to offer protection and food.... submerged wood, standing trees in water, bridge pilings. If there is current in the water, start to look for your fish in the middle of any wood and work your way downstream. The same with bridge pilings only concentrate on the down stream side of these things. And I always begin my search in the just mentioned areas fairly deep, about five feet- regardless of bait.

Right now in the fall one would want to begin noting where the deepest water is adjecent to small bays with flats, weedlines, sunken wood, etc. When the water turns this fall, these will be the primary areas to target until the first ice drives you off the water. By 'deepest in the area' I do not mean the deepest part of the lake or the deepest lake. I mean find the deeper water near to where you are finding your summer crappies, preferrably with a good breakline or drop-off present. When the turn-over hits home, go to these areas and fish tight to the cover. Fish the entire water column bottom to top and use whatever it take to get the fish to hit.

Not all waters are equal and the turn-over will not happen on every lake in an area at the same time. One lake with deeper, darker (stained) , warmer water will turn later than a shallower, clearwater lake. When your lake gets popped, try somewhere else for a week....one that has been turned for a few days or one that has yet to flip.

As I mentioned, this can be a tough time to fish, but the fish can be caught if you take what is needed to catch them and that may include bait. Be mindful that when a lake turns things get dirty quickly and may hamper a decent bite, but the hindrance is only a couple three days in length without getting any heavy rains involved. Imight just not fish for a few days at the turn on my favorite lake or I will try another area. It's hard to not fish in the fall and spring. The toughest time to do so is right at the turn though and the short span of time involved simply draws the line between summer and cold water tactics.

------------------
Plastics...making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys! CrappieTom

muckbootsonline.com Pro Staff
Culprit Tackle Crappie Pro Staff
Catch-n Tackle Pro Staff
[email protected]

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united jigsticker Mentor

united jigsticker

Posted
Posted

Nothing beats boat fishing in Late October and early November.

I had some of my best outings in a breeze blown haze of white and wet snow flakes, yo-yoing Crappies up from 40 feet of water.

Cold weather, hot action.

With everything Matt and Tom have in their rhetoric, all I can say is Ditto!

great stuff guys.

------------------
Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

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