Spawning Ethics Question

[Aquaman01]

Hi,
I'm a little concerned about fishing panfish in their spawn. Crappie spawn over 60 degrees or so, and sunfish anywhere in the 67 to 80 degree range (Univ. MN). I want to fish the spring action with my kids, but I don't want to have an adverse affect on the potential population. Both these species are 'orgy spawners' and the only affiliation is one male per nest, so I figure an empty female is fair game.

How can I
a) possibly target post-spawn fish?
tell if the fish I just pulled up is an egg-bearing female?

Thanks,

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Aquaman
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[Pig_sticka]

the only thing i can think of is using alot more catch n release. but it has to be quick or the predators will get the eggs or takeover the nest. so many people take the fish off their beds though, but there are so many spawning where you cant even see them so it is ok to take a few. it is no different than taking a limit of fish in the winter, than taking them in the spring. they all would be spawners. some of my favorite memories is fishing with my dad when i was little and just watching these fish. it was definitely something amazing, and ill never forget it. goodluck, i cant wait to get out n do alittle fishimg myself, and take others who haven't fished much to witness spring time fishing.

[Guest]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I don't pretend to know more about Panfish conservation than the DNR, but I feel that if they thought this was enough of a problem, they would close the panfish season during the spawn just like walleye and northern. The fact that panfish stay open during this time is somewhat of an idication that it does not hurt the population too badly. That's just my take on the situation. Whether it is right or wrong, that is my justification for spring fishing panfish.

[CrappieJohn]

Aquaman, Both of the above replies are valid and will not receive any arguement from me. The only one thing that comes to mind regarding the taking of these fish during the spawn is the chance of removing superior genetics from a body of water. I fish these fish right through the spawn and have a riot. Those that go home with me are fish in the 9 1/2 to 11 1/2 inch range, black, and spray a stream from the vent when handled. The smaller fish and, trust me, those of sustantially larger size are returned to the water. The spawn laden fish show an obviously swollen gut, and too, may appear very black...the gut gives them away. Another method of conservation is to take only what can be eaten at one meal. The fish are best eaten fresh and not ever having seen a freezer. A self imposed size slot and reduced limit lets you enjoy what you do and provide a meal as well and not threaten the resource. Go for it...Crapster

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[Aquaman01]

Thanks, ya'll! I'll police myself with better smarts now, and teach the kids good practices as well.

CrappieTom - that sounds like crappie coloration - what about sunfish - do they change color during spawn?

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Aquaman
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[CrappieJohn]

Aqua...Sorry my man, couldn't really say with any degree of certainty although I have found that the bulls block up nicely prior to the spawn and may in fact become brighter in coloration. As in the crappies, the male fish will spray a stream from the vent when handled, quite abit ahead of the spawn actually. Crapster

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[Lunker]

I think it's important to practice catch and release, especially in the spawning season. But when fishing for say, bluegills, it's easier to tell who is spawning because many times they'll be visibly bedded. When keeping crappies and bluegills however, I think it's more important to not keep in excess. When I am targeting fish to eat during the spawn, I won't(although I never do) try to go out and catch limits. You might end up with a few egg sacks, but keeping half a limit will decrease the number of spawners kept. If they got a fat gut though, its obvious. Sometimes you can't tell.

[deacon]

Keep them all there are too many sunfish in MN lakes which hurts their growth. Today we are lucking in MN to catch a 1/2lb sunfish. 20 years ago it was much more common when a lot more people caught and keep them.

I fish couple of spots in ND and the sunfish are hugh (up to 1 1/2lb), why because of high harvest. ND wants people to keep as many as possible to reduce the number of fish and keep growth rates high. MN will never get better for panfish at the rate things are going.

[Scott Steil]

Bluegill are prolific spawners. Bluegill have the ability to spawn several times during the year if need be. In most cases fisherman will have a hard time effecting the success of the spawn. However, usually it is the biggest, healthiest fish that spawn in a lake. The bigger issue is the fact that you taking taking the biggest and best when you harvest a fish off the spawning bed. This is where the problem comes in. You end up harvesting the big fish during spawn and leave the little ones. I will only ask this, release the real big ones and keep the smaller fish to eat. Not just during spawn, but anytime.

This applies to crappies also, but the success of their spawn is very much related to predator fish and temp. Much more them Bluegill. And, do to the fact that crappie spawning locations are very limited in many lakes, they can be easily be overfished while spawning.

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[CrappieJohn]

Another aspect that has not been approached here is that certain lakes will tolerate a bit more fish removal than others. The lake I fish is a phenoneminal crappie fishery and can withstand some exagerated pressure. Other bodies of water are less forgiving in that respect and those are the places which need to be handled with kid gloves. We all must be aware of where we are on every body of water we fish. One lake on one side of a road may have fish to boot, while on the other side of the road a lake may be in dire straits because of a lack of caring by fishermen. I love to eat fish, but I enjoy catching them more so I only keep what I can sit down and eat at the end of a fishing day. That is how it should be. If you are taking limits of fish and freezing most of what you catch, you are wasting a resource. S'pose that is why we are seeing a reduce limit size this year on inland waters? Think about it. Crapster

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[Thomas]

i don't fish sunfish after it spawened - taking out the big sunfish results in too many small fish.

[Lunker]

Deacon, your theory doesn't hold up in my mind. By keeping them all you are not going to increase the size of fish, only deplete the numbers. Maybe you were fishing big resevoirs in ND, but in a lot of the smaller lakes fishing pressure, even for gills can be devestating. One lake here in the cities that comes to mind is Red Rock. It was a hidden gem, then when found out, people flocked to catch the big gills there during the winter. 1 year later the average size of the fish has probably dropped 2 inches. Its still a good fishery, but will never equal what it was.

[ricqik]

Deacon is correct to a certain point. Depending on the lake, if a lake sustains alot of small(4"-6") fish, it is better to remove majority of the fish.

Sunfish being smaller and lower in the food chain must use all avaiable resources to survive. When too many sunfish are in a particular lake, spawning competition becomes a problem. To be able to spawn a sunfish must first mature. Nature design the sunfish to adapt to such changes. By nature, overcrowding causes sunfish to mature earlier than would be if few sunny were in a lake with little competition. Resulting in smaller mature fishes. Over time the lake becomes full of little sunnies.

But angling pressure has almost no effect on helping the size structure of a selfsustaining lake. Selective harvest actually leaves a gap in size structure. Most anglers who do selective harvest usually keep 6"-8" fish and release the 4"-6" to grow and release 9"+ ones for trophy fishing. What happens here is the prime spawners are 6"-8" fish which are being harvested. Very few would keep fish smaller than 6". This results in alot of small sunnies and very few prime spawners to grow to 9"+ trophy. With so many small sunnies, a large female(8"-9") is not going to spawn with a small male. She wants a man, not a boy. She will keep looking for a similar sized male to spawn with, in this case quite rare. This decreases her time to spawn and allow the little ones to mass produce. Voala, stunted sunnies.
In this case we need sunfish predators, not selective harvest.

For a lake to be able to continually produce bulls, it must have habitat and an over abundance food source(crustacean).

[This message has been edited by ricqik (edited 04-10-2003).]

[pikehunter]

There's an interesting point that came up in this forum that bears repeating: Regardless of if you're targeting spawning fish or winter fish, you've got to be careful how many you keep. What's the difference between keeping 20 fish in January or 20 fish from the boat in spawning season. I'd argue there's no difference. Like mentioned, those January fish would be spawning at some point.
It's imortant to practice selective harvest no matter what time of year it is!

Happy fishin!
(ain't it always?)

[CrappieJohn]

You still have to consider genetics. Big fish do not always mean old, less fertile fish. Some are genetically predisposed to being big. And selective size fishing is not always a bad thing. Case in point: a few years ago the lake I normally fish got hit with an age(size) specific bacterial infestation that killed (specifically) almost all of the 7-8 inch fish. These were boarderline fish- they were not eating only the minute foods, but fed on minnows as well and competed for the food with both the larger minnow feeders and the much smaller young fish which fed on the microfoods primarily. Mother nature sure did a good thing in this water...the larger fish that were not affected got BIG and the smaller fish, with less competition for food, got larger and everything has balanced out. Today we catch some very exceptional crappies here, but I still will not take the truely big fish. Only the 10-12 inchers. And mentioned earlier was the fact that all lakes were not created equal. As a fisherman, you have to put on the funnel glasses and look at each body of water secifically, not lump it in with all others. Crapster

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Sure life happens- why wait

[This message has been edited by CrappieTom (edited 04-10-2003).]

[ricqik]

You right, that too.

[Aquaman01]

Thanks a lot! I'm taking the kids out Saturday (leaving my rod in the truck) and hope to find some panfish from shore. Northwest metro. If anybody has a spot they wanna share - [email protected] - if not, I can always try my usual.

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Aquaman
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Peace and Fishes