Hips, elbows, and eyes checking, how important??

[BLACKJACK]

Had to put my old 13 year old lab down in June, finally getting over her and starting to look at lab pup ads, one thing that I'm finding is that there are a lot of pups for sale where the breeder hasn't had even the hips of the parents checked, very few with hips and elbows, and still haven seen one that checked all three. How important is it to get a pup with all three checked?? What does a health guarantee give you?

[LABS4ME]

The guarantee is as good as the breeder. Quality pups come from quality breeders... they have a price. 24 month guarantees do you no good... That is just a 'feel good' guarantee for the most part. Look for a breeder who has gone the extra mile and gives a good well written guarantee with the pup. The guarantee is a contract and saying 24 month guarantee on an ad is probably not going to get you much at 25 months when you screen for hips...

Myself? The first thing I look at is have the parents and grand parent been checked and cleared for inherited disorders. Myself I want a minimum of 3 generations and really look for 4. They're out there. Hips, elbows, eyes, eic... etc. The whole kaboodle or I move on. One vet visit for any of those disorders totally wipes out the potential 3-400.00 you saved on the puppy (or possibly less). Then I look for coat and physical structure, proper ear set, tail, over all build, dual coat etc. Then worry about all the little niceties like color and pointing and yada yada. All this based on the litter you are considering is of hunting or trial stock.

A lot of people to this day roll the dice on non thought out breedings... some are lucky and have no problems, some end up with a dog that costs them a lot of money and heart ache because of their condition. these same people get real whipped up if they are AKC pups which in the end means little... and want to see both parents on site... which means even less if they do not know what they are looking for. Forget the majority of ads in papers... forget the majority of ads on bulletin boards... there are some good breedings in these locales, but you will be better off finding a breeder who has researched his breeding, gone the extra mile in identifying that his dogs are 'cleared' of inherited disorders and is more than willing to stand by what he/she produces. Ask for references, and keep your search broad... the 'right' dog will find you!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Scott K]

I agree with Ken, any good breeder will have been doing this on all of their litters, and have this info readily available. The breeder I have been getting my dogs from actually include a copy of vet records and check ups for parents and grand parents in the file for the puppy. This doesnt guarantee you wont have issues, but atleast you can minimize the risk. A breeder that goes the extra mile to make sure they are only breeding top notch dogs, will for sure have better litters of pups. You will more then likely pay more for these pups, since they wont pump out 100's of puppies a year, but it is well worth it!

[311Hemi]

x3 on both the previous posts! Very important IMO.

[duckbuster]

Just got my OFA stuff back on my boy, Hips good, Elbows normal EIC Clear.

All 3 are important although some feel differently about the EIC stuff. So long as the litter is a Clear to Carrier I'm good with it because you will not get any Affecteds. (my boy came from just that, C to C) Hips and Elbows would be a must for me however.

GOOD LUCK

On ur pointing lab post I would just stick with a lab. you want a pointer then buy a pointer. I look at it like this, you want a luxury car then buy the cadillac you want a 4 x 4 then buy one BUT DON'T BUY AN ESCALADE

[BLACKJACK]

Good point Labs on saving money in the long run by getting a pup with the correct health background.

Dumb question, but if I don't look at the ads in the paper or bulletin boards like FM , where do I look? Back of the PF magazine comes to mind, but where else?

Not in a rush here, I have a 7 year old lab thats going to give me plenty of work, but the wife is asking about the next puppy and if I have the thumbs up thought I should start looking. My only qualification is that I want a yellow.

[BLACKJACK]

On ur pointing lab post

The reason I started two posts was because I've been around FM long enough to know that if you run too many questions together, they get lost.

[Farmboy1]

The other guys have made some great points, and I agree that I would never have a dog without hips, elbows, and eyes at minimum.

As far as where to look for dogs, start looking on the internet, talk to guys who have dogs that you are interested in and get the names of their breeders, get recommendations here and follow up with them, do anything you think would help locate the breeder. One thing to remember is everyone has the worlds greatest dog. Filter out what is the worlds greatest dog to you.

There is a lot of work involved in finding a good dog, but you will live with the choice for 10-15 years so do your due diligence and find the right solution for you. the purchase price is a minor factor in all the expenses the dog will stick you with over the years. Also think what a disservice it is to see a dog with one of these preventable problems (ie hip displasia), and watch the poor dog suffer because of a poor breeder, and you did not search hard enough. Then start all over training another dog.

[311Hemi]

Dumb question, but if I don't look at the ads in the paper or bulletin boards like FM , where do I look? Back of the PF magazine comes to mind, but where else?

Ask around, then do your research on the breeders mentioned. There are a number of guys here that would have some good recommendations on places to start. PM me and I'll give you a recommendation.

Oh, and as DB mentioned make sure they are tested for EIC. I have an affected dog and I would do anything to prevent it from happening again.

[Scott K]

I can recommend a great breeder of Brittish Labs, but it doesnt sound that you are interested in them.

[Todd Caswell]

I'm another one that like to see all health clearences, hips, eye's, elbows, eic, cnm. They don't have to be clear on the last two but I want to know for sure I'm not getting a effected pup. I also like to see titles, HT or FT, I know some could give a hill of beans about them but I believe I have alot better chance of getting a great dog from proven parents than a pup from " great hunters from championship bloodlines", a common header in a puppy in the news paper.

Some of the best litters out there don't come from breeders but from "hobby breeders" people that run HT and FT and have a litter every couple of years, these dogs are proven, most likely have ALL there health clearences, and typically come from a long line of great dogs.

A great place to look is on the internet various training forumns, retriever clubs in your area may know of upcomming litters ect. And don't get hung up on the " Pick of the litter" Alot of times it's the last one to go thats the stand out later in life.

I'm not in the puppy market but I look every day to see whats out there, send me an Email let me know what your looking for, if I see something that matches I'll let you know

[email protected]

[BLACKJACK]

I can recommend a great breeder of Brittish Labs, but it doesnt sound that you are interested in them.

I didn't say I wasn't interested in British labs, I just asked if pointing labs were more than a marketing ploy. In fact I would be very interested in a British lab, getting a mellower lab would be appealing. Sorry if I offended the British lab folks, I shouldn't have thrown them in with the color phase labs - red, ivory, etc. - that ARE a marketing ploy.

[BLACKJACK]

Another ??????

Is it a concern if when you call on pups, they say they have 2-3 litters/2-3 females that they breed on a regular basis??? Puppy mill comes to mind.

[BLACKJACK]

Todd, email sent.

[LABS4ME]

Start probing,

Ask for the females credentials. Have they just been brood bit ches? Were they run in Hunt Tests or trials. Are they just offspring of a line that is being bred based on it's lineage?

My guess is if they have the same females kicking out the same litters, it may not be what you are looking for.

Ask for copies of all their health clearances, pedigrees and if they have bred these females multiple times before, references.

Good Luck!

Ken

[BLACKJACK]

311hemi, PM sent.