The cubs LOSE... the cubbies lose!!!!!

[Mudcutter]

How about them cubs?? Some yahoos on this site claim a cubs/sox series. My goodness, when will it getthrough the obtuse brains (or lack of them) of these *****s that baseball clubs from chicago or boston don't win championships. The cubs and both sox teams are the most overpaid, under achieving franchises of the past 70 years. At least if the Twins get beat by the Yanks, you can say you got beat by a team that knows how to win.

[HOF#13]

Mud,

Nothing like going on the attack 'eh? I am both a Twins fan and a Cubs fan. While there are vast differences on how the management of each team prefers to operate, I am hopeful both clubs do well.

However, does that mean I'm "obtuse brained" or a(n) "*****s" as you so eloquently put it?

One last thing. I am not a fan at all of the way some teams have an open checkbook policy to buy whomever they want. However, keep in mind they are breaking absolutely no rules. They are simply working within the framework given to them by MLB. Do I wish that framework would change, absolutely. In the meantime however, I will root for the underpaying Twins to dethrone the overpaying teams, and for the Cubs to simply break the curse.

Jason

[This message has been edited by HOF#13 (edited 09-29-2004).]

[IFallsRon]

I've always like Maddux but you get what you get when you throw out an aging pitcher who's lucky to be .500.

[genegodawa]

Mud,
Very surprised at your post. Name calling is not necessary to defend your position. Facts are what counts....for instance you could have said, if weather observers from Iowa had half a brain,
.
.
they'd have half a brain.
Nobody can contest the facts.

Or you could put it out their jokingly...like, What's the diff between an Ape and some weather observer from IA?
.
.
.
.
Apes know their place.

Gene

PS I was the 'yahoo' hoping for a Cub/BoSox series. That would be much more interesting than Cub/Twins to me and probably to alot of other folks too. Of course that depends on the Cub's making it that far which is still up in the air-like most of my other dreams.

[Mudcutter]

SOrry for being obtuse, but maybe the facts will clear things up.
Last World Series Championship for the three teams in question;
Cubs 1908
White Sox 1917
Red Sox 1918
Let's just take the two Chicago clubs. 96 years for the good olde' cubbies since last championship. 85 years for the White Sox. That's 181 years combined of not winning it all. Then you look at teams like the Dodgers,Cardinals and it's a different story. Both with around the same payroll compared to the Cubs and both sox teams. But then you look at the Yankees. 26 Championships in less than 85 years.I understand they cheat with the payroll and all and can buy players that others can't. But come on,,,, DO the math. 26/85 is mind boggling. 0/185 is a complete joke. Permutations and combinations along with chance should give you at least 3-4 titles in that town based on chance alone. Then throw in the Red Sox. Amazing. Even the Mets have 3 titles.
Cubs Fans; I have nothing agst you and the desire for your team to do well. I'am the same way. But with your history,payroll, cable TV and national exposure, how can you defend you team from not being the most underachieving team of the modern sports world??? The Red sox and White Sox are close alternates to this dubious defintion. If anyone else has 3 teams that can match the lack of success, I would like to know.
anyhew, may the curses live!!!!

[genegodawa]

Mud,

Are you trying to say that because those teams have not won a championship for so long that they will never win one? or that because it has been so long, we should not be rooting for them?

I am very confused by your posts. I am not following them in a logical debate sequence-maybe I missed something. Did anybody ever say that those teams you mention are OVERachievers?

Personally, I don't worry about the past seasons. Every team starts out the year 0-0. To follow your logic, some teams shouldn't even show up since they have very little chance just based on history. And you know that is wrong. If not, let me remind you that it wasn't too long ago that the NY Rangers won the Stanley Cup after a very long drought-but they still sold many tickets between championship seasons. Were those NYers wrong for rooting for the Rangers all those years?

You can root for who you want to but you seem to take joy in putting down some teams and the people that root for them. Why is that? Did you lose some money on them in the past?

Gene

[Mudcutter]

Gene,
I guess I could have been read the wrong way. Not the first time. Sure- each team at the beginning is 0-0 and it's fans should rightfully look forward to the best. I don't want to put down Cubs fans or any team that struggles to win in the postseason. Being a Vikings fan, I know the pain. I'am not a believer in the curse thing-- but after last year in the manner that both teams lost (Steve Bartman and ADam Boone) it's got to at least enter into people's minds. In 69' the Cubs were up by 11 or 12 games with 30 games left and the Mets beat them. Buckners error in 86'. THe way the Cubs lost 2 12innings games back to back agst the hapless Reds the past 2 days is simply amazing. i guess my point is that after so much-- wouldn't you want to become a fan of a different team and reduce the misery??? Once again, not out to put down fans, but I simply don't know if I could take being a Cubs fan. Being a hardcore fan of baseball the past 20 years, and seeing the way both teams have a tendency to fade when the going gets tough, I do really believe that the Cubs or Red Sox will not win it all.(Ever)
Odds would tell you that I will be wrong, but until it happens, I wait,watch and enjoy. Is it wrong to cheer agst teams not to win???

[Mudcutter]

Tday is a classic example of two franchises 180degrees apart. The Cubs and Yankees. (as Twins Fan, I'am irrate, feel let down, and my nails are all bit down it's not even the playoffs yet) Now the Twins are in a bad spot. See post on Twins postseason thread about home field advantage.
As bad I feel, it can't compare at all to the misery Cubs fans must feel. It just never seems to end how long they lead you along and then lose in the end. They still may make the playoffs, but it's going to tough. then you have the Yanks. The win a whale of ballgame, (anyone watching the game after the 6th inning had sense they yanks wouldn't lose, at least I did) clinch everything you can, and do it buy hitting a major league record (241 I think)team home runs for a season. They play with such confidence, that it is scary. They have won (for the first timne in team history) 100 more games 3 years in a row.
Today is just a micro view of the past century comparing the succsess or lack of between the two franchises. If I was a Cub fan as strong as I'am a Twins fan, would I think about changing teams???? Of course not. But I can't begin to understand how diehard cubs fans feel. I know this all is just a rambling, but on a day like today, would any Cub fans out there think about changing from rags to riches??????

[buzzsaw]

Sorry to say this but the Cubbies and Twins are both wizzing down their legs right now... The Cubs may not even make the playoffs and the Twins keep pulling their starting pitching too early in games and eventually losing. This means NO home cooking unless we step up and sweep Cleveland! Good luck to the Cubbies, I'm not routing for Bonds to make the playoffs!

[genegodawa]

Well Mud, you see it's like this. As I age and mature, the baseball standings don't mean so much to me in the end. I don't have any money bet on them so no big deal. It's the journey that is fun. All pro fanchises go thru situations that make you wonder why you support them, and I have certainly been thru my share with the '69, '84, '89 Cubs, the '71 Hawks, the last Packer Super Bowl loss, the current Hawks and Bulls, etc. etc. (Sure do miss those championship Bulls teams)!

Part of the thrill is sometimes rooting for the underdog. And part of the agony is when you have a good team that just can't finish the job. But neither would make me change my alliance. That would be tantamount to "jumping on the bandwagon" and I am proud to say I have stuck with the same teams (Cubs/Blackhawks/Bulls/Packers) my whole life-win or lose, good or bad. I too sometimes root against teams but never to see them just keep losing like you seem to want the Cubs/BoSox to do. Usually it is when I despise something (like a particular player, or a team that wins all the time, or if they are in the same division, or if I do have money bet against them).

Anyway, I am not trying to change your mind about anything. You are free to voice your opinion. I only got this involved in the first place because of the insulting words you used in your post.

Looks like "wait 'till next year" again for the Cubbies. Yanks over Twins, BoSox over Ana, Astros over Dodgers, Cards over Braves.
Now you know who I am rooting against.

Over and out,
Gene

[First Ice-Mike]

Hey Mud-

Since you're such a hardcore baseball fan you won't might telling me who the heck Adam Boone is. I've never heard of this guy.

FI

[genegodawa]

You must be good friends with Mud to be able to put him down even though I'm sure you know he meant Aaron, not Adam.

[Mudcutter]

I could have said Daniel Boone, and people would know who I mean. Thanks for back, Geno

[buzzsaw]

Aces get thrown out the last two nights for the (S)crubbies and they can't get it done! It had to be tough for Cubs fans to watch part time Prior and Kerry Woodless go 0-2 in the two most important games of the year for the organization. I route for the cubbies, they just have such a history of underacheiving that I equate them to my Vikings... they have to win the big one someday right?!

[buzzsaw]

So the Scrubbies are down 8-6 with two outs in the eight inning today... Smoltz just entered the game so it looks like season over for Scabbies. Ohhh, strike 3 on Michael Barrett!! End of eight innings and the drama grows! The bottom of the ninth will be the 9 hitter, Patterson, Garciabunka, and Aloufa... if they can't do something nobody can for that team.
Neifi Perez pinch hits... err, I mean pinch grounds out (1 out), Patterson walks on 4 pitches... the DREAM is alive!!! Garciaparra says a prayer for Mia Hamm and proceeds to strike out LOOKING!!! yowsa cubs fans are shakin' now!!! Alou is the last chance... and he is sick of the season and strikes out on three pitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes folks... Harry Carey is rolling in his grave.... IT'S OVER, End of thread... boo hoo hoo... go cheer for the White Sox now... oh wait their season has been over for over a week! You can put it on the board, YES!!!!

[IFallsRon]

And Sosa didn't even show up for the last game. He'll be enjoying that $17 million from the Cubs again all next summer.

Maybe the games will be more enjoyable to watch next year. Carey is gone and Stone may be, too.