limits for family fishing

[say_der]

Is it legal in MN to help take a family member's limit? The reason I ask is because on Saturday I noticed a Dad, Mom, and their 5 children fishing. I saw the dad catch at least his limit. And then contine to fish. The kids had given up by then and were no longer fishing. The kids were all old enough not to need help fishing - they could catch and land fish without assistance.

This didn't seem legal or ethical to me.

It also got me wondering if there should be a "family limit." Does each person in the family really need to keep their personal limit of 15"-18" walleyes?

Perhaps a "2 meal limit" for a family would work? That way the could still keep the number of fish based on the size of the family.

[musky hunter]

I believe that as long as the family is in the boat, that boat could have 6 walleyes per person, whether junior was playing Nintendo or fishing. However, if dad drops them off at shore, the combined possession of all fish, in the freezer, boat stinger, etc. cannot exceed the possession limit. There is no reduced "family limit" in Minnesota, I doubt that there ever will be one.

[korn_fish]

It's not illegal and in my opinion, it's not really unethical.

If you think about it, this family may only get out once or twice a year to fish.

And who can say how many fish or what size of fish constitutes a meal. When you indicate a "two meal limit". What is that? Is it two 18" eyes, one 23" eye, or five 9" gills? But what if I am a big eater? How many are a meal for what age? A 8 year old would probably eat less than say a 12 year old. But then again, maybe the 12 y/o would eat less.

Limits are partly based on the number of fisherman, which includes estimates for children that fish with licensed anglers and the estimate of the catch rates and what the fisheries can support.

If a boat with multiple people is keeping limits of fish, I think you would probably find that the majority of those boats are catching the total limit and not worrying about which one of them caught it.

Just my opinion.

[jegerjack]

I agree with Korn-fish, I do not think it is unethical either. I look at it the same as if you where in a group of 5 or 6 buddies. Just because you might limit out on the number of eye's you personaly caught that does not mean you necessarily stop fishing. And as far as a family limit, that would be completely and totally wrong. You think it is ok to have stricter rules just becuse someone takes his family fishing? It makes me think back to the days of going out with my dad and family, having a fish fry at the end of the day. I hope that I will be able to do that when my daughter is old enough to hold a pole.

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[This message has been edited by jegerjack (edited 06-07-2004).]

[say_der]

To me, possesion limits should be caught by individuals - not party style where you can help someone fill out thier limit. If junior didn't catch it - why should it count towards his limit?

I didn't really think of it as the one time a year type deal - that's a good point.

I guess part of the reason it bothers me is because it was a small body of water that can't handle that type of pressure.

Does the kid have to be your own kid? Or can I borrow a bunch of neighborhood kids, load them up in the Suburban - take them fishing - and keep their limits myself?

[united jigsticker]

There is no right answer here folks.

Truth be told, there are alot of folks that only get out once or twice a year. And those are also the people that are not the most skilled anglers the state has to offer.

So with that said, if they go 2 times a year, maybe they only get fish on one of their 2 trips. If they keep the full limit for every person in their boat on the one trip they are successful, then I am happy for them and hope they enjoy their meal.

Tell me whats worse?

Compare a guy that is a very "ethical" angler. He has a favorite lake, and fishes it at least 3-4 times a month.

Everytime he goes there, he takes home just 1 or 2 eater sized Walleyes. Thats all. Doesn't sound bad in any shape or form.

But he's taking 3-8 Walleyes a month for 4 months. That's 12-32 Walleyes in his summer season.

A family of four goes out on their yearly trip. They take a limit for every person (highly unlikely in the realms of Walleye angling, but just used as an example).

That's 24 Walleyes.

So, in reality, there's no real big difference. 24 Walleyes in one trip, or an median of 24 Walleyes a summer season by "ethical angler". And he's one person. This is a whole family.

How many fish can you eat? If you are anything like me, you can sit down and gobble a mess of them.

I have been out 9 times this year on 9 different lakes. I C&R'ed on every trip this year, throwing back Crappies, Bluegills, Walleyes, and Bass until this past weekend when I kept a limit of Crappies and 1 Walleye.

I have a family of four, including myself. As I type this I am biting on some crispy fresh fried Crappie filets.

I fried the whole limit, and frankly, they are all gone, and I am home alone. (don't worry...the wife isn't fond of eating fish, my daughter is nine, and she will enjoy the walleye, son is only 1 year old )

So...In perspective...There is no right answer, because, frankly, who are we to judge???

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Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[hey__bob]

So as a dad I shouldn't be able to take my kid or kids fishing and keep a limit of fish? That is bull. Leave the fish in the lake for the "real" fishermen. Thats the idea huh??? Sounds fair for you, not the family.

I have and will continue to take my kid and any others from my area that care to go along fishing anytime anyplace. If they catch a few fish and become hooked on fishing is that such a bad thing. If I load up my boat for a day on the lake with 6 kids, it isn't about the fish or keeping a limit. IT IS ABOUT FAMILY TIME AND TIME ON THE WATER!!!

[This message has been edited by hey__bob (edited 06-07-2004).]

[walleyehawk]

I think we need to encourage kids to fish, not discourage it. Anybody that takes kids fishing knows that you will not be doing alot of fishing yourself. Besides, kids will tire of fishing quicker than adults, so the family may not be out on the water as long.

Remember if you catch all of those fish, you have to clean them. I think that would stop me at about two limits, if not earlier.

And who says you can just stack walleyes into the boat. They tend not to cooperate too well when you start thinking of catching a limit each day.

[united jigsticker]

I guess some of you wouldn't like the way things are ran on launch fishing.

If the bite is good enough that people are getting their limits and still catching more fish, if another slot fish is caught by someone who already has their limit, the captain will ask them if they'd allow it to be put on someone else's stringer who either isn't catching fish or doesn't have their limit yet.

This way, as many people on the boat have an opportunity to take home fish from their outing as possible.

That's how they do it...And I don't really see whats wrong with it.

Say Der: If you have a kid in the boat, and you get your limit and they don't get anything...I'd say you're not being fair to your kid at all.

The young ones need encouragement, and if they are not getting the bites, and you are...The common thing to do, the right best thing to do, is to get the fish on and allow them to reel a few in on your pole.

Otherwise, you might as well leave them at home cuz they are just going to get bored and frusterated.

Just my opinion though...You can spoil and foil a childs fishing experience, or you can make the day for them. It's up to you.

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Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by united jigsticker (edited 06-07-2004).]

[say_der]

Hey Bob - I never once said you couldn't take your son fishing, did I? I also never said you should leave the fish in the lake for the "real" fishermen. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I also never mentioned that I don't keep any game fish - ever. So it's not like I'm asking for the fish to be left in the lake for me to bring home. I'm just a C&R kind of guy I guess.

My main point is - if you catch the fish - it goes towards your own personal limit - once you reach it, you're done fishing for the day.

If I'm fishing by myself, and I were to catch and keep 6 walleyes, I could no longer legally keep fishing. Why should it be any different if my child, or anyone else's is in the boat with me?

I didn't mean to offend anyone by this post. Again, it mainly has to do with the frustration of seeing so many fish taken from a small lake.

[united jigsticker]

Well...with all due respect Say Der, you are incorrect.

If I catch my limit, and have it in possesion, I can legally practice C&R as long as I immediatly release and additional fish caught back into the water.

I love to catch fish and throw them back. It's the sport of it. Just because I have a limit in possesion doesn't mean I am packing up camp and getting off the water.

You say you're a C&R kinda guy. But with your other points of "ethics", it would seem logical to me that once you C&R a limits worth of a certain species that you immediatly retreat from the water...???

Educate, but make sure you got it straight.

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Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[hey__bob]

No you didn't say I couldn't take my son fishing but it was pretty clear that this is your lake and that family shouldn't be taking these fish.

I spend some time dealing with kids that would not ever be able to go fishing if it wasn't for people like me who have the patients to take them out and try to teach them. I also would never take a limit just to take a limit but if the kids in the boat want to keep some fish, that is not for you or anyone else to decide. The limit laws are in place to protect our fisheries and if they are not keeping anything over their limit, it is all with-in the law. No matter what the size of the lake is or if you think it can't handle the pressure.

As far as taking any kids other than your own, I say YES take as many as you can fit in your boat safely and have a good time. Not all will take up the sport but it may keep them out of other trouble they may get into.

I don't mean to offend on here either but posting against some kids in a boat catching and keeping a legal limit does offend me. If we all spent some time passing the sport to the next generation, maybe the day will come when they take you fishing in your old age. With out the next generation learning to enjoy this sport, it will die!

[say_der]

United Jigsticker - I'm sorry, but I believe you are incorrect about the possesion limit thing. Once you keep it, you can no longer leagally fish, because even though you are going to release it, for that brief time you have that fish, you are in possesion of it, and therefore over by one.

[Mark Christianson]

I am right in line with max rpm.

If the participants are not involved in the catching process, why should they be the loophole for another person or two to fill multiple bag limits.

Just my opinion.

[united jigsticker]

Yes, but as an onlooker, who are we to make such a detirmination?

Is it a loophole? Or do the kids want Daddy to catch fish so they can all have some too?

You and I won't know because it's not us doing it, and everyones situation is different.

Some people like to eat fish but not catch them. Others like to catch them and not eat them. Others like to do both but don't have the skill or luck to do either. So as long as they all possess a license, it's legal, fair, and...it all evens out somehow in the end.

Some C&R, some catch and eat, and some don't catch at all.

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Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[jegerjack]

This thread is expanding rather quickly. How about this one, if the child has been asleep in the front of the boat for more than 30mins his possession limit is decreased by one and you must decrease one fish every half hour after that. I am sure there are hundreds of different variations that will sway peoples opinion on this subject one way or the other but my feeling is the regs are already complicated enough, so the way the regs are written at this point, stick with them.

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[hey__bob]

Who said I don't teach C & R when fishing with kids....now you are putting words in my mouth. I don't want to start a flaming session here on this topic or any other for that matter. Too many people jump to conclusions about others and the way they do things. It may not be your way of thinking but that sure doesn't make it wrong. I fish bass most of the time, I have never eaten one. I go out for the time on the water and the fun that it brings catching a nice fish and watching it swim away. When I bring kids it is up to them if they want to keep some or not...notice I said some not all.

[say_der]

Bob - my comment was a general one - not putting words in your mouth. Again, that's my opinion too, not directed specifically at you.

UJ - I just noticed another comment from you in a posting about me not being fair to kids. When I go fishing with my wife and her 11 year old sister and/or any other kid, the only reason I bring an extra rod is as a back up for one of them. I'm not sure how you assumed I would be busy catching fish while they are bored and frustrated.

[This message has been edited by say_der (edited 06-07-2004).]

[hey__bob]

Catch and release has evolved a long way in a short time. There is never anything wrong with taking some fish for the table but c&r is what has made the fishing in this state continue to improve year after year. Sure, there are some who do not use c&r but many people do. If someone is taking too many fish in your opinion, it is just that, your opinion. And, this is just my opinion.

[Caesarfishinguytoo]

I wasn't there watching what EXACTLY was going on, but I can tell you sometimes when I go fishing with my son, he takes breaks from fishing and plays around with the minnows or does this or that, but then starts fishing again. Maybe this was the case. Plus, if he had a family of 7, it is going to take quite a few fish for one meal. Heck, I have a family of 5 and 12 eyes of 15" don't even hack it, I have to throw in some crappies and/or sunnies too just to feed the hungry varmits. I gotta start feeding them more than once a week maybe!!!

[walleyehawk]

These people are practicing "party fishing" as mentioned earlier.

This means that members of the "party" may keep fish until the group limit, as long as there are "two or more persons angling from a single watercraft; OR if not in a watercraft, maintaining unaided visual AND vocal contract with each other. (Page 15 of 2004 Regs)

THIS ANGLER IS FOLLOWING THE LETTER OF THE LAW. He is practicing party angling. Some may not find this anglers practice as ethical, but he is legal. We may not like it, but have to accept it. I would rather he throw the fish back, but it is his legal right. If you do not like the law, discuss it with the DNR/Legislature and have it changed.

As to real small kids, that is CO discretion. I have heard if the kid can't hold the rod or try to bring the fish in, it might be a problem. I would be more concerned about the safety of a very young child out on the ice.

We can only control ourselves. Why worry about that which you cannot control. We have to stop questioning peoples LEGAL practices.

[united jigsticker]

OK say der,

Then you best not do ANY fishing when the Walleye/Pike or Bass season is closed because you just might accidently catch one, and while you are taking it off, for that brief time, you are in possesion of it and could be arrested, fined, and have all of your equiptment including your boat and vehicle taken away.

We've been over this one before.

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Good fishing,
UJ
[email protected]

[fiskyknut]

I'm not so sure about that one either, but you could for sure say that you are targeting another species after filling your limit of the one and that the fish in question was an incidental.

fiskyknut

[jegerjack]

Say_der, you are correct about the possesion rule but you also need to look at it the other way. Say I do load up the neighborhood kids and limit out on all of the fish, I cannot legally keep them all for my self, I would be over my possession limit. I guess my main point is that I would have to think that this is not as big of an issue as we are making it out to be. I doubt that there is a huge problem with people loading up the neighborhood kids just so they can take more than they need.

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"

[This message has been edited by jegerjack (edited 06-07-2004).]

[say_der]

Hey bob - never said it was my lake either. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. I also never said the kids shouldn't be able to fish. My problem is when the kids are NOT fishing and the dad is taking thier limit.

Part of teaching kids to fish should be C&R.

[This message has been edited by say_der (edited 06-07-2004).]