Vinyl Tile Removal

[SkunkedAgain]

Quick question. I'm in the middle of my basement renovation. I finally got all of the pink foam insulation board up on my exterior walls. I am now ready to build my stud wall and have treated bottom plates ready to go. Here is my question. The basement is poured concrete but has an old vinyl tile floor in the areas that I'm working. I'm pretty convinced that the mastik contains asbestos (built in the 50s) so my plan is to eventually just carpet over the vinyl floor. Will I have any problems just building the stud wall over the vinyl flooring or will an inspector want me to remove the tile?

[LightningBG]

Shouldn't be a problem as far as structurally as long as you anchor through it into the slab.

As far as inspection, tough to say. Every jurisdiction has their own rules.

Here is some other info regarding the removal

Quote:

Asbestos-containing Floor Tile and Mastic Abatement: Is there Enough Exposure to Cause Asbestos-related Disease?

1. John H. Lange

1.

Envirosafe Training and Consultants, Pittsburgh, PA, [email protected]

Abstract

Chrysotile asbestos has been reported as a constituent of both floor tiles and mastic. In consequence, asbestos-containing floor tiles and mastic have been identified by regulatory agencies as hazardous materials. The reason for this categorisation is the suggested potential for these materials to cause asbestos-related diseases and as a result special handling has been prescribed. However, studies have reported that little airborne asbestos exposure occurs during abatement of these materials. Evaluation of exposure levels in comparison with levels with the potential of disease causation suggests that there is little likelihood of workers handling or removing these materials developing an asbestos-related disease. When the maximum exposure level of 0.02f·ml−1 (0.8f·ml−1 year) found during studies is considered over a 40-year period and evaluated with epidemiological data, the risk of mesothelioma, asbestosis and lung cancer may be estimated to that reported for background levels. From a practical point of view this represents zero risk. Study results suggest that floor tile and mastic are not likely responsible agents for asbestos disease in either abatement or other workers associated with these products.

Not that you should risk it though.

[pureinsanity]

I just removed a bunch of old vinyl from a house built in 1925. Wear a mask and rip them up. I think the biggest issue is prolong exposure. Open a window and get a fan sucking the dust out. Doesn't sound like there is much asbestos in old vinyl and plaster as there is in asbestos insulation that they used to insulate pipes and such.

If you are really worried get the floor soaking wet with a soapy water. this will help keep any fibers stuck to the ground and not airborne.

[SkunkedAgain]

Thanks. I'm not really worried about it but couldn't see a reason to get rid of it. It helps insulate the floor (a little) so might as well just build over it. It is prone to cracking sometimes so I just wanted to see if others had been required to remove this stuff.

[pureinsanity]

Get in there with a hammer and a flat bar and have fun! I ripped three layers of vinyl out about a week ago. The bottom layer was STINKY!

[CAMAN]

The only thing I would be worried about with leaving it in would be resale value when it comes time for an inspection and the off chance it gets noticed. Anything containing asbestos raises red flags and may make a potential buyer run.

If you do rip it out you don't want any chance of the asbestos fibers getting into your living area or around kids. Block off all HVAC registers in the area and put plastic on the doors leading to the rest of the house. Wet down the tiles with water and maybe an adhesive loosener and wear gloves and a good resperator, NOT a cheap dust mask. Rip it up and double or triple bag it so it has no chance of ripping the bag open. I know it's alot of steps but asbestos is not something you want to take lightly. Don't know the laws pertaining to disposal of tiles, but you may want to check with your garbage company before putting it on the curb.

[pureinsanity]

Wet Soapy water. not just water.

[Tom7227]

Give some thought to putting something down to insulate the floor before you carpet. There's a product that comes in sheets that are 3 x3 or so and has plastic bumps on the bottom. Allows for some moisture without wrecking the carpet and makes the room more comfortable. Entire threads have been written about how to finish a floor in a basement and after my personal experiences I definitely am a believer in something more than carpet on concrete.

[Farmboy1]

The problem with asbestos fibers is they are very small and once airborne, can "float" for many days, weeks, or months. If inhaled, they settle into the lungs and never leaves. It is not something to take lightly.

It is also illegal to dispose of asbestos containgin materials in a standard dumpster of landfill. The fines if caught are really bad.

Not saying you should not do it, but know what you are up against before you decide to expose yourself or your family to this hazard.

If the tiles are 9"x9" chances are they contain asbestos. 12"x12" normally does not. the mastic (glue) can still be hot, but you don't know until you test. There is a testing company in the TC that we normally send things to for testing. "EMSL" will test anything for about $20. It may be worth testing to have more information.

[nonteepical]

asbestos is only harmful when it gets airborn. if you rip it up then its particles get airborn and into the lungs. then you have a one in a million chance of having health problems. if it's stuck good, cover it up it poses no harm. the only inspection i would call for is an electrical inspection.

[pureinsanity]

It is true all it takes is 1 fiber, but also can take pro long exposure to asbestos to get ill.

There is asbestos in some plaster, some tile, some vinyl, some insulation, heck who knows what it is in these days. I have been around it, Im living in a house with it. I cant afford to pay someone to remove it. Im living with it.I will probably croak from someone else before the asbestos will get me.

[SkunkedAgain]

Yup, all of these reasons are why I'm trying to leave the vinyl tiles undisturbed. I already dealt with the asbestos ceiling tiles. I had to haul it all out to a place in Buffalo, MN. I combined my haul with a buddy's hazardous waste. It cost me $70 when everyone I know was just saying to toss it in the regular garbage. I didn't care, $70 and I know that I did the right thing.

In this situation, it seems like I should be just fine. I'll certainly put something in between the carpet and vinyl tile so the basement should be very comfortable.

[mabr]

As Nontyp said, if its sound no need to remove it. We run in to it all the time. Just lay carpet and pad as usual. AS LONG AS ITS NOT DISTURBED.

[Pat K]

The safest thing is to cover them without disturbing them.

The removal and disposal of asbestos containing materials should be done by professionals. Not only will the tiles contain asbestos (I assume you've had them sampled and tested to confirm the presence of asbestos) but the adhesive will also probably have asbestos in it, too.

Professionals use a chemical (smells like oranges) to dissolve the adhesive, and they carefully seal off the area before beginning work.

Masks or respirators generally available to the public do not prevent the inhalation of asbestos.

Then all debris and disposable cleaning materials are required to be double bagged, marked, and sent to a special landfill per EPA and state regs. It should not be disposed in a standard waste landfill.

[Sifty]

As Nontyp said, if its sound no need to remove it. We run in to it all the time. Just lay carpet and pad as usual. AS LONG AS ITS NOT DISTURBED.

AS LONG AS IT'S NOT DISTURBED.......

Make sure you have the carpet installer know that you would like the tack strip put down with PL 400 or another brand of adhesive.

When you are pounding the strip the old and fragie tile will break.

Most of the older tile pre 70 contain and the adhesive will contain as well.

If the tile size is 9x9 the odds are VERY GOOD it contains.

Sifty

[SkunkedAgain]

So that then creates a problem with me building a stud wall on top of the tile. When I shoot my nails through the bottom plate, through the tile, and into the concrete, won't that disturb the tile and thereby create a problem?

[pureinsanity]

Yup! Bye bye Tiles! Go get a nice respirator.

[Sifty]

Yes it will.

The worst thing you can do is break the tile.

How long of a wall are you putting up?

Sifty

[SkunkedAgain]

Two ten foot and one twelve foot section along the exterior walls, so about 32 feet.

[SkunkedAgain]

I did the responsible thing and went to city hall this morning. The inspector said that he won't flag anything if I'm drilling/nailing through the vinyl floor. He said to just properly dispose of any hot materials that flake off.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone

[pureinsanity]

HOT?

I would suggest if you are drilling you mark everything out on the 2/4 and the floor and than get your soapy water ready. and go get a good respirator.

[crappiebuster]

A stand up scraper with a six inch blade. Ive taken up many viynl floors this way with ease. Unless its very old I wouldnt worry about asbestos. Usually theyre under 1% content. If your concerned about that go get a paper painters suit and an approved respirator. Visqueen off the area so it doesnt get airborne in the rest of the house. And scrape scrape like theres no tommorow.

[pureinsanity]

and throw away said suit

[LightningBG]

I did the responsible thing and went to city hall this morning. The inspector said that he won't flag anything if I'm drilling/nailing through the vinyl floor. He said to just properly dispose of any hot materials that flake off.

Thanks for all of the advice everyone

I dont see a need to drill anything. Get your walls in place and blast the nails down through with a .22 cal power hammer. There shouldn't be any dust at all.

[pureinsanity]

I spoke with a client today who is a retired HVAC guy. I agree with him asbestos is not as bad as they make it out to be. yes it is bad, but still I don't think a removal here and there if done properly is going to hurt you.

get your tyvek suit, get a good respirator, seal off the area, get a fan blowing the dust outside, and have at her removing the tile! When done, throw away suit, throw away filters, and clean mask. Take your suit off outside!!!!