Heart of Zone perspective Zone 3 4point legal buck

[Musky Buck]

I wouldn't have wasted a phone call to the dnr, put that deer down, my common sense would tell me not to ever let any animal suffer, that's an unwritten rule and if I were to be fined big deal, I could live with knowing the truth of the situation. As far as APR's we've practiced this for years without it being regulation, if in doubt don't shoot, sure it's frustrated some of us wondering if that buck was decent or not in low light or whatever but life goes on and who's to say someone in our party can't connect on him in the upcoming days and if you have so many large bucks in your zone already why not be patient to hunt for these 150+ class bucks, chances are they all fulfill the APR requirement, those left to rot deer hopefully those people learned a lesson, it is the very reason my area stinks for mature bucks, you got many that just blast away whatever comes out and the rookie bucks are the easiest to see during shooting light, they get to rut the terrain the bigger bucks fear the most. Good Luck to you.

[lakevet]

This made me mad so I called my legislature and ask if there was anything I could do? He said he'd had many complaints and gave me names of people and groups who were hoping to get a petition before the next Legislature.

Legislation is not the best route, but it can result in a stronger voice for the less organized hunters opinion to be heard clearly by the DNR.

Can you post the names/groups who are doing this? Or have them post it themselves. Ideally on a new thread. Those for APR's are very organized. The opposition to APR's is not. Just like party hunting. In my part of the world, very few are for APR's and would gladly support a petition so the rule wouldn't be extended to their hunting area.

It is a predictable backlash when new rules are introduced based on a slim majority composed of those for the experimental regs AND THE NEUTRAL/NO OPINIONS. APR's and banning buck party hunting were not supported by 80 or 90 % majorities. If I recall correctly it was barely over 50 % that were not against the restrictions(done by counting neutral/no opinion as being for it instead of neutral) and the surveys did not list how many young bucks would be "saved". When the large minority wakes up and is joined by the formerly neutral/no opinion group, all of the sudden the "majority" are against.

The DNR says that these experimental regulations are subject to repeal if enough hunters are not happy. Be sure to tell the DNR and your legislator. The DNR plans to wait 3 years before evaluating. It allows time to see if hunters are happy with results. It also wears down opponents that are unhappy. Be sure to voice your opinion clearly, respectfully AND persistently. I never hunted Zone 3, BUT since it has been clearly stated that some want this statewide, all deer hunters should feel free to express their point of view. I personally hope the DNR's process is allowed to follow it's course, which would result in repeal of experimental zone 3 regs based on a majority against or neutral to those rules, (i.e. those in favor of keeping regs in place are a minority).

As one who likes to deal in facts, I prefer to hear first hand accounts on this subject. More light than smoke.

lakevet

[someday]

I have been working with some groups here in Zone 3 to draft wording of a petition for change. There are many common opinions and some differing as how best to word things which still need to be worked out, but the goal is to have copies ready for signatures a week from today. Next time I talk with them I'll tell them of your interest. When the petition is finalized I can post here on a new thread along with any contact information the groups authorize.

[Getanet]

Count me with Lakevet. I don't hunt Zone 3 and have no knowledge or opinion on Zone 3. But there are many that want this enforced statewide which is ridiculous in my opinion. I also agree that those who either are against it, or neutral, are clearly less organized than those pushing it.

[Musky Buck]

What really is the big cry baby issue, so you can't dump a spike, fork or 6 pointer, can't even get through a month of APR, lets push it more so the kids that can shoot at not saying they will get him but can actually see a horned deer during season to keep there interest, all these adults that have dumped mega yearling bucks and found or find tags for them enough is enough, see a decent deer and hammer it before the neighbors get him, let the musky buck bashing begin. Not a 1 anti APR has posted a thread will take an extra deer if you got 1, it's all about shooting my own and not letting the DNR try something to manage a herd where the buck balance is out of sync, basically I don't want to have to try to identify exactly what I'm shooting at. That's that side of the fence. Now the other side is saying we don't want to count points, we'd rather shoot first check later, how do some of these guys that shoot a small buck thinking it's a doe find tags in there group to tag him if they have no buck tags ? So they were leaving him lay long before APR went into affect, I'm not saying it is the answer, APR and wouldn't agree that the big woods areas it would be effective as it takes them a year or two or maybe never to get a decent rack, you survived the first year of it, you don't think you can make it 2 more ? In all honesty, I wish by doe permit zone they could poll the hunters and if 51% 49 % implement it with a 3 year window and assess the pro's and con's and see where it stands. Been doing APR with our group since 1994, have had no mistake bucks yet in our group, has not been detrimental to the deer, and has had little impact as the neighbors slaughter the yearlings, in the other areas many have had the thrill of a lifetime including the neighbor lady who bagged one that scored 195. But agreed it should be what the majority of the hunters want. I'll take my pummeling now.

[Musky Buck]

Oh oh, wife is being induced, baby coming, off-line till about March 1st goes this crazy cat, good luck with your efforts on either side of the fence but this baby once gun safety is over is going to learn patience in the stand, 1 way to increase your odds at a mature deer is to let immature deer walk, and that the getting has little to do with the hunting experience, you won't be buried with your racks anyway, don't worry about all the shooting you hear, you're not alone, be humbled by taking a good deer, don't expect it to happen each season, not getting 1 will make you appreciate the years you do connect, stay even keel, you will see thousands of deer in your lifetime, don't let them get to you just because you are carrying a gun during season, and never ever cheat the game of deer hunting, ever, never. Something like that, now off to see is it a buck or a doe ? JK And of course in the good old U S of A there never is an issue that doesn't have both sides, APR maybe great for some not for others, but without a 3 year window will we really find out ? Minnesota...........the land of 100,000 shooters.

[bottom-bouncer]

What really is the big cry baby issue, so you can't dump a spike, fork or 6 pointer, can't even get through a month of APR, lets push it more so the kids that can shoot at not saying they will get him but can actually see a horned deer during season to keep there interest, all these adults that have dumped mega yearling bucks and found or find tags for them enough is enough, see a decent deer and hammer it before the neighbors get him, let the musky buck bashing begin. Not a 1 anti APR has posted a thread will take an extra deer if you got 1, it's all about shooting my own and not letting the DNR try something to manage a herd where the buck balance is out of sync, basically I don't want to have to try to identify exactly what I'm shooting at. That's that side of the fence. Now the other side is saying we don't want to count points, we'd rather shoot first check later, how do some of these guys that shoot a small buck thinking it's a doe find tags in there group to tag him if they have no buck tags ? So they were leaving him lay long before APR went into affect, I'm not saying it is the answer, APR and wouldn't agree that the big woods areas it would be effective as it takes them a year or two or maybe never to get a decent rack, you survived the first year of it, you don't think you can make it 2 more ? In all honesty, I wish by doe permit zone they could poll the hunters and if 51% 49 % implement it with a 3 year window and assess the pro's and con's and see where it stands. Been doing APR with our group since 1994, have had no mistake bucks yet in our group, has not been detrimental to the deer, and has had little impact as the neighbors slaughter the yearlings, in the other areas many have had the thrill of a lifetime including the neighbor lady who bagged one that scored 195. But agreed it should be what the majority of the hunters want. I'll take my pummeling now.

no pummeling from here well said musky. There will be no changes to to the zone 3 experimental regs for atleast three years. They can sign all the petitions they want. If they wanted change these groups should have got up off the couch long ago. Now suddenly they arent happy with the new regs so there going to do something about it. sorry but the bus left two years ago.

[Bear55]

Not a 1 anti APR has posted a thread will take an extra deer if you got 1, it's all about shooting my own and not letting the DNR try something to manage a herd where the buck balance is out of sync, basically I don't want to have to try to identify exactly what I'm shooting at.

He does make a point. I have backed off APR but I think short term they could really open some eyes in the SE and around the state.

APR's state wide is just a bad idea, especially areas that are lotto but I think they could do some good in intensive harvest areas. Maybe something mid-way in managed areas like no buck party hunting. It just makes more sense to manage some of the smaller areas vs the larger zones in the state.

It might even be interesting to rotate APR every other year to keep both sides happy.

One thing for sure, why get all upset about APR now? It is here for 3 years so why not just see where it takes you. The first year is always going to be the hardest but next year there are going to be whole lot more 2.5 year olds running around and the year after that could be even better. I am sure the DNR will be asking everyone for an opinion once the trial period is up.

[Bear55]

Oh oh, wife is being induced, baby coming, off-line till about March 1st.

Good luck Musky!

[InTheSchool]

One thing I would like the DNR to research is the number of buck fawns killed before and during APR. There is anecdotal evidence that more buck fawns are being harvested with the APR. And it makes some sense as the does kick the buck fawns loose during the rut and they become an easy target as they are dumb and alone. Also, if two or more fawns are seen together the buck fawn is usually larger. The question is, are hunters harvesting the same number of young bucks with or without APR? Is it possible to crunch the numbers Lou?

[hockeybc69]

Absolutely possible to crunch those numbers.

When you register the deer, you have to give the sex and either fawn or adult.

[nonteepical]

One thing I would like the DNR to research is the number of buck fawns killed before and during APR. There is anecdotal evidence that more buck fawns are being harvested with the APR. And it makes some sense as the does kick the buck fawns loose during the rut and they become an easy target as they are dumb and alone. Also, if two or more fawns are seen together the buck fawn is usually larger. The question is, are hunters harvesting the same number of young bucks with or without APR? Is it possible to crunch the numbers Lou?

The logical guess is the same. 6 month old twin fawns, a buck and a doe are going to be the same realitive size to each other, either one could be slightly bigger than the other at that age. you can't tell a buck or doe according to size, you have to see the nubbins to determine a buck. A doe will kick out either sex when she is ready to be bred, not just the buck, they are both gone. The nubbin buck isn't thrown out to fend for himself and be more vulnerable while the doe fawn gets to stay with the protection of mom and her instincts.

[fishane]

I like the idea of the APR, and believe it will only take one year to have a major effect. I bet that a lot of the guys complaining this year will change their tune when they start seeing more nice bucks. Except for a few brand new hunters haven't we all shot enough little bucks? Let's not forget that the whole "you have to shoot a buck" thing was about rebuilding the deer herd when deer were nearly wiped out. Well, the whitetail has recovered nicely, so now let's try something different.

[nonteepical]

I bet that a lot of the guys complaining this year will change their tune when they start seeing more nice bucks.

most of the people against it are stubborn or have blinders on.

[PEATMOSS]

most of the people against it are stubborn or have blinders on.

There are numerous reasons, both biological and philosophical that people are opposed to the idea of crimanalizing the shooting of deer that don't meet other peoples' trophy standards.

Rational, reasonable discussion of the issue goes into the toilet when we make condensending generalizations.

[Bear55]

most of the people against it are stubborn or have blinders on.

Its been pretty well documented in other states that have APR that approval ratings go up each year. I want to say Pennsylvania has an approval % in the 70's after a few years. This year will open some eyes and next year will be even better, then it will be time to re-evaluate the whole thing. The first year with APR will always be the worst.

[nonteepical]

There are numerous reasons, both biological and philosophical that people are opposed to the idea of crimanalizing the shooting of deer that don't meet other peoples' trophy standards.

[InTheSchool]

Except for a few brand new hunters haven't we all shot enough little bucks? Let's not forget that the whole "you have to shoot a buck" thing was about rebuilding the deer herd when deer were nearly wiped out. Well, the whitetail has recovered nicely, so now let's try something different.

Be careful what you say. Why not: Except for a few brand new hunters haven't we all shot enough deer ?

Also, look out you window. Most of the states deer herd is going to be significantly reduced by mother nature in the next 4 months.

[Deep]

Why would you like to see the deer harvest go down in a area that is mostly intensive harvest? Happy bumper hunting.

[nonteepical]

i agree but it's not the fault of APR's.

Think of it this way, the younger stronger deer survive the harsh winters, exactly what apr's protect, instead of killing off 67% 1.5 year old bucks wich is the average of bucks harvested annually in Minnesota.

it's the fawns and old deer that are affected most in harsh winters.

[Deep]

no pummeling from here well said musky. There will be no changes to to the zone 3 experimental regs for atleast three years. They can sign all the petitions they want. If they wanted change these groups should have got up off the couch long ago. Now suddenly they arent happy with the new regs so there going to do something about it. sorry but the bus left two years ago.